SideChain latency problem

Discussion in 'Pro Tools' started by zHENKOVSKI, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. zHENKOVSKI

    zHENKOVSKI Newbie

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    If you don't know about this issue, you can loose all effect from sidechain in your project!

    It's about routing issue in Pro Tools. When there are many plugins in the project (pretty big latency) - side chain has some latency too. You can see it on rendered waves, when you are trying to sidechain your bass with kick or something like that. Compression will work too late. Tried with different compressors. Tried to turn on/off delay compensation and low latency mode. Doesn't help. Something is changing, but not the way it should be. Had this problem on Intel and AMD CPUs.

    Is there some way to get it work right?

    Pro Tools 12.5 AudioUTOPiA
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  3. Moogerfooger

    Moogerfooger Rock Star

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    Well if you're using a plugin that models an analog unit, a tiny amount of latency will be always inherent. How much latency are we talking about? What kind of comp are you using? Digital, VCA, OPTO, FET, Delta-mu or FB/FF?
     
  4. rhythmatist

    rhythmatist Audiosexual

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    I like hardware for compression. dbx
     
  5. indianwebking

    indianwebking Platinum Record

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  6. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    What did I do this time? :dunno: ...Oh, okay lol

    Actually this is interesting stuff but I can only make wild or basic guesses like "perhaps PT plugin delay compensation is not good" and stuff. And the OP is already beyond that.
    But I can crack a bad joke anytime, all right. :disco::wink:
     
  7. quadcore64

    quadcore64 Rock Star

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    1. Audio hardware setup/settings, PC Setup, BIOS set properly (XMP/PBO), OS tuned/tweaked for audio?
    2. Live tracks/samples/loops or a mix of all?
    3. Checked start time & zero crossing of each track (time-aligned)?

    Each system has a sweet spot for optimum performance. This is why 'prebuilt' system makers have specific hardware in their list.
    This is also why they will offer preinstalled software at a nominal charge. This applies to all types of professional workstations used for science, film/video, audio & etc..

    Answering the questions above could lead to a working solution from someone here. Good luck!
     
  8. justwannadownload

    justwannadownload Ultrasonic

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    Guys, you miss the point. It's a routing issue.
    Compressor should be on a dedicated bus, not just somewhere in the inserts.
    Generally, for a proper sidechain compression with lots of latency-heavy plugs, you need three busses: the Compressor bus, the PDC (delay compensation) bus and the Sidechain feed bus. If the sends in DAW are latency-compensated, you don't need the last one.
    So you put the outputs of all your tracks you wish to sidechain-compress (e.g Bass) on the Compressor bus and also put a compressor there, you put the outputs of all your tracks you don't wish to sidechain-compress (e.g. Kick, Snare, whatever) on PDC bus, and then you Send your sidechain signal tracks (e.g. Kick) on Sidechain feed bus, then put the output of Sidechain feed bus to compressor's sidechain on Compressor bus.
    If sends in your DAW are latency-compensated, you can just Send the Kick's signal directly into compressor's sidechain, no need for Sidechain feed bus.
    That's it.
     
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  9. zHENKOVSKI

    zHENKOVSKI Newbie

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    SCLatency-PBbad.png SCLatency-PBnorm.jpg

    That's what I'm talking about

    The first variant is bad on playback, but good after commiting.
    The second - vice versa..
     
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  10. MrLyannMusic

    MrLyannMusic Rock Star

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    Pretty commun for Pro tools to have latency issues, the solution is to close the project and re open your daw, after you add your plugins that introduces the issue.
     
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  11. zHENKOVSKI

    zHENKOVSKI Newbie

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    Didn't help.

    Upd: No, it helped) Made it better too
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  12. zHENKOVSKI

    zHENKOVSKI Newbie

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    Thank you so much! It helped! Now won't afraid of using side chain anymore)
     
  13. Joe_sleaze

    Joe_sleaze Kapellmeister

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    FLStudio does a great job at routing dedicated side-chain signal to the target signal/track, very easy to set up as well, one of the many reasons why I stick with FL.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  14. zHENKOVSKI

    zHENKOVSKI Newbie

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    So, working better now, but still have latency in sidechain (both with and without SC feed). Here you can see, how I did all of this routing:

    prblm.png prblmScr.png FF.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  15. Pete Frost

    Pete Frost Newbie

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    Unfortunately automatic PDC for sidechains is an HDX only feature :snuffy:
     
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  16. zHENKOVSKI

    zHENKOVSKI Newbie

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    Heard it too..
     
  17. indianwebking

    indianwebking Platinum Record

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    i only use kickstart now. he he
     
  18. Ozmosis

    Ozmosis Kapellmeister

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    Must be a pro-tools thing because i don't have these issues with Studio One.
    Sorry, not an overly helpful response from me i know :)
     
  19. gorantovic

    gorantovic Noisemaker

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    Hi zHENKOVSKI,

    In order for Pro Tools to properly calculate delay compensation, first you have to send all your tracks to one stereo Aux Input, which would be your "Master bus". Let's say that you put Bus 11-12 as an input of that Aux Input, and you send all your tracks to that Bus.
    In that way, Pro Tools starts to calculate delay compensation in a proper way. All other guys with other DAWs don't have that problem at the start, because they already have a "Master bus", but in Pro Tools you have to make it.

    If you want your sidechain to be in time with your delay compensation, you have to implement it in your Master bus routing, in order to know what delay compensation to use. You have to make so called "Dummy bus". Create a mono Aux input, with your sidechain bus as an input (Bus 1), and with your Master bus as an output (Bus 11-12). Put the fader all the way down. This is only for the Bus 1 to recognize delay compensation, it doesn't have anything with the sound.

    It is not the problem with your DAW or hardware. You have to know and understand how it is working in order yo use it properly.

    All the best!
     
  20. zHENKOVSKI

    zHENKOVSKI Newbie

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    Thanks, but I guess, I did it already: http://audiosex.pro/threads/sidechain-latency-problem.56001/#post-508129
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  21. D-187

    D-187 Newbie

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    It's weird I just experienced this same exact issue! Same Program (Pro Tools 12.5 AudioUTOPIA) and using the Fab Filter Pro-C 2... It worked fine when I sidechained my Kick to the 808, then I sidechained the Clap to the Kick and it went crazy! My template includes a Master Bus so that wasn't the problem. Im well experienced with Pro Tools and I came to the conclusion that it's a flaw in the software.
    :suicide:
     
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