Read @Avenel 's recent posts about the same matter here:
https://audiosex.pro/threads/i-deci...ust-synthesize-them-for-being-original.28728/
Your thought bears much resemblance to his lovely remarks (I love him). Finally he was defeated I think.
And also could you please share some of your musics (made with the strange sounds) in that thread? I think it could be a good resource for people having the similar issues with sounds. Thanks!

 

Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2017

Might be clichés but definitely truths:

But everything looks perfect from far away.

If you want to change the world, you must first change yourself.

All these technologies come only from our minds.

If you want to innovate then set aside (most of/all) the rules and innovate. Just remember that the most genius innovators aren't always recognized for what they are especially when they are. I can't presume to know the workings of minds like these but I have a feeling they did it for themselves and not for public consensus.

There is no hope for innovation just like there is no spoon.

 

People called Malevich's "Black Square" and "White on White" innovative. I don't mind if anybody wants to stare at black and white paint dry for hours, but I'm heading to Dali's room, who was innovative and amazing at once.

Seriously, I don't mind the music of XX century. I absolutely love it and satisfied by it. I don't need anything else. from Rach for my classical desires to some heavy metal to bang my head to and air guitar the solos, it's all great. why dig for more when there's gold and diamonds already at your feet? better spend your time listening to your faves. and listen more closely. it may be old, but it's not obsolete. it's still relevant as ever. let me tell ya, after listening to The Dark Side of the Moon a countless times, I still dig out some new sounds I didn't hear in the mix before. It's unbelievable! What a truly amazing record. No wonder it's been Billboard's number one for gazillion weeks and was preserved as a unique historical recording by the US Library of Congress.

guilty pleasure? Chopin. still the good ol' Frederic. his shit is so full of solitude, melancholy and sadness, that keyboard hustler just speaks to me, you know? it's a personality thing. that piano cat had some soul, I tell ya. (pun intended, people, don't get all crazy ;D )

 

I listen to what all of you are saying, but the people who contradict this opinion reply from the "inside the box" point of view.

Again, I don't know how to say it more clearly, I still enjoy what we can find in this beautiful box and I would no make/listening music minimum 50 % of my daytime/nightime if I was not finding a genuine pleasure to it.

But this doesn't imply to not feel limited by some boundaries, not coming from our mind (by the way, good point to "how it's possible to miss something you don't know yet?"), but from the technology used to make sounds.

So, to not loop forever on this, let's change the angle of my question.

In the context of a creation process, do you feel limited by the actual technology ?

Even if the answer is no, what kind of crazy new kind of instruments do you dream about to succeed to the electronic era ?

 

I think we need to focus on the composition. Sounds are just colors. Take orchestral music, it is all made from the same color pallette. How about solo piano music? Yes, it's made on one instrument! Stepping away from music, let us consider the artists who use the medium of oil paints, water colors, pastel, charcoal, etc. They all have the same platform to work from, but they produce surprisingly different results. Sculptures have a hammer, a chisel, and a piece of stone to work with. Photographers are even more limited, they just have a camera body, some lenses, and a few filters. So in comparison, modern musicians have an abundance of tools that they can work with.

 

Last edited: Feb 12, 2017

Wind of change is only a matter of abandoned, I guess…

 

Last edited: Feb 6, 2017

What is innovation? Simply put, to take what's already there and create something new. Was Mozart innovative? Not at all. He just brought the known music of that time to a whole new level of perfection. Was Skrillex innovative? For sure! He created sounds that nobody used before. But Mozart already proved that his music still works today, while Skrillex is not really moving forward in success.
So, is innovation the most important thing in music? You can guess from my descriptions that I don't think so. The theremin was an innovation. But how important is that instrument for music in general? The hang drum is an innovation. Its importance?

Did you ever had the chance to play a real grand piano, in a real concert hall? I don't mean professionally, just you and the grand, no audience, and just hitting a few keys, not playing any serenades. Did you? If not, fight for that chance. You will get a whole new view on music. If so, you'll understand the following:
I had the chance. The grand was unusued for 24 hours, and I sat there and played on it 20 of those 24 hours. I was 15 or so, I never played piano before. But when the first note came out of the grand, it was such an inspiration. You don't just hear a tone. The sound is all around you, it vibrates in your body, it makes you wanting to have more. Your adrelanine is going through the roof. Then you hear the first harmonies and it goes to another level again. A grand piano in a concert hall and a boy who never played piano before. That's all you need to understand what music is about. I'm still flashed, after decades of music making, after decades of new and sometimes innovative instruments. The grand basically said to me: "This all can be yours. You don't need to play on me like it was used to play on me. There's so many combinations of notes that you will explore, which will make you cry because of their beauty. It can all be yours."

That's the heart of music. Not being innovative in terms of new sounds or new instruments, but being innovative in how you perceive music and how you create it. When Snap Came up with "The Power", that was innovative. They didn't use anything new, but they used it in new ways. It is hard to understand today, but back then it was a totally new sound, a totally new beat, a new groove.

Innovation is more than creating new instruments or producing yet unheard frequencies. It starts with yourself. And it will happen over and over again, just like it did in the past. As long as people have different perceptions of music.

 

I am more limited by the amount of features that you is presented by from the:
(VSTi / VST plugins) out there than technology.

 

It's a different thing for everyone, what is to be called 'innovative'. You should determine what you mean. Isn't it enough to call music that surprises you innovative ? If not, where is the 'innovation limit' ?
I remember, for instance, blind composer Moondog's record of 1969 as a total innovation, although he spoke of himself as very conservative., as his compositions were indeed. But the way everything has been put together, was new - for me, at least, though nothing there was really innovative. But it felt totally different Was it innovative ? I can't say it, since seemengly nobody followed his path, at least no one I know of.
Of course, from a certain distance on, everything in this universe is percepted as a paistry of something. It depends on the resolution of the observer's eyes (or ears). You only have to step backwards far enough. Some things, very big ones, may persist longer, but in the end, stars are converging to galxies, glaxies to clusters, and so on ;-)
Additionally, making and hearing music does not only depend on that music being surprising, it's also a thing of resonance. The resonance 'frequency range' of the human mind is very wide, it can be met with very old and very new things. Hunting the unknown may lead to new borders, but can also become frustrating, time consuming, and meaningless in a sense of telling stories nobody can understand, or even not telling stories at all.

Edit: Haha Tulamide was faster with his comment, we may have thought very overlapping about this.

 

I'm going to be honest.
Do we really need/want something innovative?

I want something I like, innovative or not I don't really care

 

There are no limits of the sort you are painting yourself into a corner with. For instance, do you ever go around thinking it is a shame we only have 4 unblended colors.

 

How about this one:

It's almost unbelievable.

 

I think you may have this statement back to front, as this seems to me the opinion of someone stuck in the box, only seeing the limitations and constraints of the box. if you are outside the box, the limitations no longer exist.
The only real limitations and constraints, when it comes to music are our own imaginations.

Not at all. Technology is a tool. A means to an end. The end being the music of our minds. We all have our prefered tools, that we like to work with, and different ideas in our minds. We also tend to hear things in a different way, so it's impossible to run out of sounds really.

I don't, and why would I. There's loads of instruments out there already, but if something new comes along, it will be another tool to use. Remember that there is a saying that's been around for a long time. "A bad workman always blames his tools."

 

I think it's a psychological matter. I mean some people get satisfied by thinking about the infinite possibilities that can not be harnessed, while other people enjoy everything around themselves. I want to say there's nothing as limit both in math and physics. Limit is just the creature of human being for analyzing the events around themselves easily. Even Formulas in several fields of science are just for making the humans' tasks easier when you deal with the conditions that seem periodic and repetitive (though I don't believe in the repetitiveness term because there's no one in the reality). The only limit I can imagine is the one that our brain makes for itself and it's just for saving energy (and subsequently our lives) and not trying to experiment everything for example like the people did 2 millenniums ago.

The only suggestion I can have for everyone here is endeavoring to find good musics for listening (that satisfy you) because they're just the best of the best solutions for anyone seeking the answer to these kinds of questions.

 

I've forgotten who said it, GK Chesterton, Tolstoy.....whatever....but fate draws a circle around man that limits his possibilities, but within the confines of the circle (the possible), anything is allowed. That's the deal, period. Limits are defining, embrace them. For instance, words only have meaning because they each are limited - they are defined. Without the limits they don't mean anything and nothing could be conveyed or understood.

 

Very good point. That description is why I'm totally blown away by modern beatboxers, for example.

And for the fun part: I thought this song would fit somehow.

 

Innovation isn't always a good thing in music, just look at what happened in the 20th century with classical music and their gravitation away from tonality from the likes of Schoenberg and his followers. No one is probably going to enjoy or remember this period of classical music in the future and it has already created an almost elitist divide and alienated the casual listener, which may even lead to the eventual demise of classical music (at least amongst the general public).

Trying new things is good in all but always try to take and expand on the past, don't try to reinvent the wheel like so many peoples' egos encourage them to do.

 

I'm inclined to agree with FFF. If you have a concept of global musical expression and their associative instruments across the world it illustrates that from banging two rocks together, to orchestral master works, to abstract works in free form jazz or the deconstruction of electronic glitches, we have pushed the boundaries of sounds (and silence) to a possible limit. I say possible, because I hope I am wrong.

 

Decks And Drums And Rock And Roll. Such a good album. Also a useful mantra for recovering sex and drug addicts like myself.
I'm beginning to realize that innovation can be a purely personal thing. To cause a change in the established format within one's self. Not necessarily looking to affect change in the world and all it's genres but simply changing the way we approach and do things. Deconstructing just one single ideal within can have a domino effect that ripples all the way to the outside.
To summarize: Lead by your own (own: in every sense of the word) example.