I can only apologise for the convoluted debate...

It really depends on what you mean by "stuff" ?? Sorry to be vague but I don't want another 22 pages about the context of the debate.

He has some really interesting documentaries. He did a good one on 20th century greats,

The Beatles, Bernard Hermann, Leonard Bernstein and Cole Porter... Really interesting stuff.

 

I mean they're all fantastic composers/musicians, but Bernard Hermann is one of my heros.

 

It wasn't really trying to get similar results to what you posted on page one. It was a lot of work which other people collaborated on. People were trying different things. From trying to emulate chord progressions and modulations to other equal temps to people trying to use physical synthesis models to try and get sounds of well known instruments in different temps to how they were designed. Or changing overtone series of an instrument and trying in different temps. It was a while ago but I wouldn't have thought it too difficult to redo some of the same ideas in something like SuperCollider.

 

That's how it's done. The chart is only to help people learn and understand the relationships at first. R234567 is the major (diatonic) scale, everything else will be an alteration or inversion of that.

When you understand how it works, you can derive everything you need from very little... when you don't fully understand, you need everything to make very little.

 

@DoubleSharp I wasn't referring to you exactly, unless you are also duskwings...

 

DoubleSharpNewbie
Joined:
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dusky ran out of gas i suppose...

 

Yep, that's how it goes.

If you have an intervalic system working in your brain, then you'll be able to atribute absolute meaning to the "random things" you play.

The result is that instead of "I just moved my fingers here and there but have no idea what I did... in fact, I just forgot what it was", you'll be able to map things in your brain VERY quickly.. something like "Oh, this is nice.. I just played an implied VI going to V7 with the 3rd of each chord descending". This creates a musical library in your brain that you can adapt to anything and any instrument without even looking at staff... and you still can write everything down in staff if you need to because the intervalic mental approach is totally related to music theory instead of "where did my fingers go?" related.

edit:

As an example of adaptability, you can analyse things as deep/shallow as you want/need.

"Oh, this is nice.. I just played an implied VI going to V7 with the 3rd of each chord descending" could also be (for the same musical bit), "I just played C - 3 - 5 going to B - 3 - 5 - b7 with the 3rd descending as the melody line on the upper octave".

Hope this makes sense.

 

Last edited: Oct 22, 2015

...and without fear of dropping the bomb on the "old school protectionists", I'll add:

The intervalic/mathematic thinking doesn't derive from staff music considerations, in fact it's the opposite. The mathematical/intervalic considerations on music are what originated the use for notational conventions (from staff to piano roll) so.. there ya go.

 

obviously,now more than ever,expecially after arcticstorm suggested to use david lucas burges's methods and and the brainiac quoted him saying that that s the way it has to be done,i said it for 20 pages and he insisted that that note names were useless, proving two things:1 ) he doesn t know that david lucas burges's methods use note names; 2) he replies without knowing what he says.i lost count of allll the times he cotradicted himself .So as u can see there s no need to debate with him since he s already busy enough arguing with himself when he doesn t argue with other peeople

 

I didn't even mention David Lucas or his ear training methods.

If you want to be pedantic, you should at least know about the topics instead of acting like a child who just wants to find a way to be right. All you do is tell me that I am worng, talk about my contradictions yet you are always unable to prove it without heavily editing the surrounding context.

I don't understand why you act so afraid... what are you afraid of? I think you're afraid of going out of your little shell and find about everything that I've talked about. I gave info, links, books, examples... you only contributed with noise and whinning.


Smartass comments will be ignored, I will only debate things with people who are honestly interested in musical matters.

From now on I will ignore duskwings.

 

In fact, I won't be posting in this thread anymore.

If someone wants to ask further questions, just ask me directly or create a new topic. It doesn't make sense to continue this here.

 

Felt a bit like a battle at some points. Duskwings has made some very valid points.

I can only speak for myself. The past two or three years, in my spare time, I have been getting quite heavily into Jazz and methods associated with becoming more at one with the idiom. There are many fantastic quotes from some of the legends of Jazz about this.

Intervals can be used for a variety of musical ideas that can be useful to the practicing musician. Such as moving a chord or arpeggio through a cycle of fourths in order to learn it in every key. Good for muscle memory and also hearing note recognition.

Or intervals can be useful for understanding how chords are voiced (fourths) or indeed the voice leading of a progression.
You can play through diatonic scales by using diatonic cycles to fully immerse yourself with an key or voice leading.

Then put it through a cycle of fourths to learn it in every key. It really depends on what the individual is looking for at that time. Maybe a particular sound is still trying to get out of your mind but your not practicing it right!

Intervals are really big subject diatonic or not. Coltrane changes are a great example but too complex for me to go into. Barry Harris has a method I have been studying recently, very basically;

He has a scale that he calls the Major sixth diminished scale, basically with a note in between the 5th and 6th degrees.

C D E F G (G#/Ab) A B C

This can then be harmonized into the chords, C6, Ddim7, C6(1st inversion), Ddim7(1st inversion) repeat through inversions until you get back to root inversion. A chord off each note of the scale.

Words don't really do justice to what can be achieved by this, when done well it sounds wonderful. People can almost improvise through progressions You can make it minor by changing the C6 to Cm6.

Once you realize that C6 and Cm6 are enharmonic to Am7 and Am7b5 you can start to alter the function of harmony of the scale by using chord substitution and the like. It is very confusing and couldn't properly explain it. I haven't really dedicated much time to really getting into it because I don't feel ready in terms of my own ability on my instrument. It'd be better to do other things for now... A lot of his theory is trying to get people to be less frightened of V - I in Jazz and in fact think of the resolve (or not) as a blank canvas. This is only an aspect of Harris's jazz method.

I guess my point being that intervallic relationships are not only useful as a written document but also to practice with, learn from and hear. As someone who doesn't read music (well) I have found that the study of the subject can be useful to understanding an idea that I can't get a mental or aural grasp on.

"You've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail." - Charlie Parker

 

Last edited: Oct 22, 2015

arcticstorm did, and u agreed,moron

 

Proof?

No?

What else should we expect...

Edit: I ain't senile yet so I am perfectly aware that I've never even thought of David Lucas when writing my posts.

This must be the post that is being a victim of a very heavily forced misreading.

https://audiosex.pro/threads/how-to...ultiplication-table.21302/page-23#post-145431


Fun games but I am out.

 

Last edited: Oct 22, 2015

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Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2018

@foster911

That is correct. The idea of the circle is not to make you think or view geometric shapes inside it, it's just to bring your mind out of the tables with dozens of unecessary repetition. Anyway, if you need to check for distances on an initial stage, look at the circle, not at tables.

Just make sure that you don't mix the idea of sharps/flats within the intervalic framework with the notes themselves. For example, I often prefer to think of 12 notes in all sharps but that has no influence on the intervalic formulas.

Example:

R - b3 - b5 would be (in all sharps) G - A# - C#.

 

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Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2018