How many seconds of a song can I sample without a license

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by Luka, May 10, 2018.

  1. Luka

    Luka Ultrasonic

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    My first post. I've been getting lots of different opinions on the amount of seconds you can sample from a recording without getting a license? They tell me is 30 seconds but that seems too long. I'm doing a song and don't want problems.

     
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  3. beatmagnus

    beatmagnus Producer

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    If you sample 30 seconds without clearing I'm pretty sure the original author could probably sue for all royalties and revenue. In US you can't sample any seconds without clearing. Unless we're talking about some kind of new Youtube or Soundcloud rule?
     
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  4. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    AFAIK, none.

    And welcome to the show, mate.
     
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  5. coolbeanz

    coolbeanz Producer

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  6. majestic03

    majestic03 Noisemaker

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  7. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Legally: Zero. Unless you have cleared your sample by the copyright owner (label, artist, etc).

    Read up on copyright. It's pretty clear.

    On the other hand, there were major musical genres based on (and thriving on) breaking these laws. But that's a completely different story.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
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  8. lukehh

    lukehh Producer

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    There is no answer to this question.
    1st it depends on local copyright law, 2nd not the duration is relevant but the recognition factor. If the sample can be clearly assigned to an already existing piece of music you have to ask the author/label/copyright owner of the original for a license to use it. Thats it.
     
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  9. Kwissbeats

    Kwissbeats Rock Star

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    So dnb is officially dead?
    Can't use the amen drums?
     
  10. TonyG

    TonyG Audiosexual

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    Best Answer
    When you come to a Forum like this asking questions with legal ramifications you are going to receive answers that could be right or wrong; therefore, I want to tell you what I always tell anyone who asks the same type of question: Consult an attorney or rights clearance agency before you use any music under copyright protection for anything other than your own personal use.
    Now, I will give a general answer based on US copyright law and court decisions to to the question you posited. The 30-seconds you mentioned is nothing but a myth. If it can be shown that you sampled, then you’re infringing. There’s no minimum amount or duration. Indeed, it’s the act of sampling itself without permission that establishes infringement. The only defense to a charge of copyright infringement in sampling cases is to claim Fair Use. The affirmative defense of Fair Use, however, is rarely successful and extremely costly to present.
    I have several threads here in the Forum which explore US copyright law https://audiosex.pro/threads/the-copyright-corner.38499/
    In sum, if you are going to be sampling a sound recording it is always recommended and wise to obtain permission.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only, and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction. No information contained in this post should construed as legal advice from Audiosex or the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible through, this thread without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
     
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  11. Spyfxmk2

    Spyfxmk2 Platinum Record

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    Hello @Luka :bow:,welcome to the forum/s :wink:

    Another option is to re create them yourself, it takes a bit of time but imho it is worth it :wink::bow: :

     
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  12. Luka

    Luka Ultrasonic

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    @TonyG Thank you. That is an excellent explanation and your thread very informative. A lot to digest. Are you a lawyer? Can I pm you about this?
     
  13. TonyG

    TonyG Audiosexual

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    You are welcome. Am I a lawyer? I will take the fifth on that. PM about this? I already have answered your question...to your satisfaction. Moreover, I only answer legal questions in open Forum.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  14. Von_Steyr

    Von_Steyr Audiosexual

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    4 or 5 seconds, that is the limit proposed by vanilla ice, just say its not the same and youll be aight.
     
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  15. Luka

    Luka Ultrasonic

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    Sorry for asking. My bad
     
  16. lukehh

    lukehh Producer

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    As an example on how different countries judge in this question read the courts statement about a german Hip Hop producer used a 2 second rythm sample from germans electronic pioneers Kraftwerk 20 years ago (this is also the time this story is at germans different courts).

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...pling-lawsuit-defeat-sabrina-setlur-precedent

    But the battle is still not finished...they still fight against each other at the European Court of justice.

    Here is the original by Kraftwerk (the part starts at 00:35min):


    And here the track with the rythm sequence (directly at the beginning of the track) by Sabrina Setlur (Producer Moses Pelham)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
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  17. WillTheWeirdo

    WillTheWeirdo Rock Star

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    Do NOT listen to anyone that tells you anything other than ZERO seconds are allowed without permission in the US!
    Let me explain why you can NOT legally sampling anything without permission....

    To sample anything you need it cleared by both the owners of the PA Copyright and the SR Copyright.

    The PA Copyright are the writers of the composition, both lyrics and melody, and to not get their permission to use their writing is a copyright violation.
    The SR Copyright is the owner of the fixed sound recording (masters), this is almost always the label but can be another, and before you can sample that fixed recording into your own fixed work, you must have their permission or it is a copyright violation.

    To not get permission from both copyright owners places you at risk of being sued for your sampling.
     
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  18. LuckySevens

    LuckySevens Producer

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    NONE... you don't have ANY rights to use copyrighted material (without paying for usage license or having an agreement granting permission for usage).
     
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  19. vaiman

    vaiman Kapellmeister

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    Yep, none. Zero
    I've had 2 copyright infringements slapped on me on YouTube. Both times I had proof of payment/usage.
     
  20. Matt777

    Matt777 Platinum Record

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    ..depends on the sample rate of the original (if it is analog, zero, nada..) :hillbilly:

    But seriously, in every country there is some organization that deals with copyright stuff. Usually "non-profit" (yeah, right..) Give them a call or write em a mail and MAKE them work for you! They have lawyers that get paid from % they collect (lots of $€..) and they have to give you all the right answers
    :wink:
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  21. lukehh

    lukehh Producer

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    Also depends on the volume...If you sample something and set its level to -90db in your mix, you can use up to 2 min of samples. :wink:
     
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