Export to 16bit vs 32bit - mix issues become way more apparent?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by SpatialAnomoly, Aug 4, 2022.

  1. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Because it's still the standard wave format?
     
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  2. recycle

    recycle Guest

    huh? Standard where?
    The last time 44/16 was a standard was with CDs, but we're talking up to the 2000s...
    Why use this format in 2022?
     
  3. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Why use movie/film format (48/24) for audio only?? I see no advantage in exporting.
     
  4. Mud Jones

    Mud Jones Platinum Record

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    24/48 from the start to an exported 24/48 file to YouTube.

    Did I add anything useful to the topic? probably not, but the only complaints I ever receive are usually related to my writing and not my mixing.

    I'll get my coat..
     
  5. PifPafPif

    PifPafPif Platinum Record

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    There is one thing with 48kHz : some plugin devs don't test it ... and so you can get some bad aliasing with those buggy plugins.
    At least with 96 kHz, if there is a bug you will not hear it :rofl:

    Will not happen with "serious" devs of course.
     
  6. Mud Jones

    Mud Jones Platinum Record

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    if I could do 192 I would
     
  7. recycle

    recycle Guest

    I'll tell you a secret: when you convert a native 48/24 (or whatever higher res file) into a 44/16 you're discarding informations. As for me, I have not exported to 44/16 in more than 10 years. Ok, whether you can hear the difference is another matter, but why downsample? What is the purpose? Apart from saving a few Mbytes on the file, I cannot see the point.
    Note that files of the high resolution songs on sale are 96/24
    https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5e236202a6bb3077371c0fc0
     
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  8. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    Sue me if I get something wrong. (ok, when). But the main reason for downsampling inside your session on a track, is because there is some target end format. So if someone has the target bit depth and bitrate (which is lower), They can do all sorts of things with the different dither plugin options they have available to them. The snake oil explanation is that somehow these magic dither plugins will make better educated guesses when they fill or chop the sample/audio file word length to the new "converted" target. If I remember correctly, when the 1 word byte is dropped; it results in digital clipping, and in this particular situation it is usually referred to as Truncation. It forces the shorter amount of data, but just cutting it off. Something like reverse saturation, to avoid the daw software doing it on its own. I am even rusty remembering this stuff, because it coming up as a subject is almost always in reference to someone trying to get "loud results" from DAW software in 2022. These errors pile up, but only the data of the last word is truncated on the "victim" channel. They usually have transients spiked by transients and no saturation,compression,eq on the channel and wonder why oh, why oh, why. Because they have the daw too close to clipping and the monitors not adjusted.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  9. bluerover

    bluerover Audiosexual

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    You need to work on your mixing. Also, use some HQ dither on bounce to lower bit rates.
     
  10. SpatialAnomoly

    SpatialAnomoly Noisemaker

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    Few! I had a feeling it wasn't entirely the same! Will try to compensate for this in future. Glad my concerns are appearing to be less subliminal. Also always had a feeling i should be turning oversampling on, but never had enough reason to! will do so now on stem export before mixing!

    Good point, had no idea its outdated! I don't release regularly enough yet but my aim is to compensate for any conversions by streaming platforms (to avoid any audible downsampling/conversion artifacts discussed in thread). I hear we can now just upload to spotify in 24bit 48khs and spotify/soundcloud/youtube does the rest, so cool!

    My fear however is that by letting them do the conversion I end up with even worse results than if I had done it myself(incurring audible aritfacts such as those discussed in thread). if they can do it better I will gladly upload in 24bit/48!

    I am aiming for two quality categories:
    1) ad music, jingles: files always at 48khz/24bit *quality loss is not an issue(as you say!)
    2) music for my future online "portfolio" (spotify, soundcloud, youtube): shouldn't these be converted to 16bit/44.1khz and/or mp3 first in order to bypass their conversion process?

    I hear youtube now uses near lossless opus format or something? so i suppose that would make my efforts irrelevant?

    is this conversion process is still relevant? if its better to just upload straight in 48/24bit i will do so!

    P.S. I know loudness is more the issue for incurring an audible limiting penalty by e.g. spotify, but lets say theoretically I have the ideal integrated LUFS score for each platform. Am I worrying for nothing?

    Thanks! interesting live 11.1 isn't on here yet but it shouldn't be too different from 10 which seems fine? sheesh live 9 was royally.. not great:rofl:

    See above! took both Q's into account

    shocker! welp I ideally work in 48 cuz the pro industry requires it right? but I will be sure to check any dodgy devs on a spectrogram just to be sure! might discover a few surprises lol

    I will be fairly relieved if this is also the case for spotify/soundcloud/apple etc. So its better to upload straight away in 24b/48? as opposed to first downsample to 16b/44.1 and then convert to mp3 and then upload?
     
  11. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    What are you doing? Now it's not a secret anymore? :facepalm: :rofl:


    Ok, seriously.
    Discarding you say? Well, if you don't hear it, where's the problem? Not everything you can measure matters, right? And this coming from someone who measures every plugin.

    When I'm making music, I use 44.1/16 exclusively because I think that's sufficient or have you ever heard about a song that couldn't be released on CD due to 44.1/16? So far I haven't.
    When I'm working for clients and they insist on 48/24 that's fine with me.
    Hi-res audio is another audio standard, no doubt.
     
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  12. recycle

    recycle Guest

    44/16 for your audio projects?
    this is very 20th century ...

    Do you use a Soundblaster?
    [​IMG]
     
  13. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Absolutely. And it gets even worse. People are still using analogue equipment like consoles, FX and even instruments. :facepalm: Playing a violin is so 17th century. :rofl: :winker:

    Pretty close, Babyface.

    You didn't have a listen to this https://audiosex.pro/threads/24-16-16-24-102.52310/ by any chance?
     
  14. recycle

    recycle Guest

    Old school sound engineer starter pack:


    - Receding hairline and ponytail
    [​IMG]



    - Bilboard magazine every month in the mail
    [​IMG]



    - Every song playing around him says: "yes. I have that on vinyl"
    [​IMG]



    - Keeps hanging in the studio all the backstage pass collars of the concerts he worked on
    (most recent: 1997)
    [​IMG]



    - "My vintage Yamaha DX7 still sounds better than any VST"
    [​IMG]



    - When recording starts, he says on the talkback "Ready fellas? Let's ROCKnROLL!!"
    Especially when the music played is not rock and roll
    [​IMG]



    - His car stereo with the same Aphex twin playlist for years
    [​IMG]



    - Smartphone Belt Holster
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. SpatialAnomoly

    SpatialAnomoly Noisemaker

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  16. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Smartphone, smartphone, doesn't ring a bell (pun intended :hahaha:).
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  17. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Why? That would prevent others from exchanging their opinions and experience.
     
  18. SpatialAnomoly

    SpatialAnomoly Noisemaker

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    Carry on! I'll take notes:bow: I certainly have my homework cut out for me:rofl:
     
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