The A Dorian Diatonic F# diminished(b9)/A is an A diminished using a half-tone whole-tone - a High school music student knows that. Who did you the T.A steal that from? Check your work - EPiC FAIL. In the words of Frank Zappa because you chose to quote him: Disco boy run to the toilet and comb your hair. You do not play the modes with any tones because you can not. You cannot even steal well. At least tell people where you steal what you did not hypothesise. It is called theft and plagiarism when you do not acknowledge your sources. if you are going to insult people @Freetobestolen at least have the decency and courage to do it to their face you took three posts trying to pretend you were getting back to it and instead had digs and veiled insults. Get back to your waffling and get some real courage into that chutzpah.

F# diminished 7th = F#,A,C,D#(Eb)
A Diminished 7th = A,C,D#(Eb),F#
A half-tone whole-tone = A,A#, C, C#,D#,E,F#,G,A Rudimentary - acknowledge your sources it's called courtesy to whomever you stole from. Some things are free to be stolen but only if you acknowledge the sources. The b9 in your example on F#, a G, is part of the half-tone-whole tone of A which is your tonal centre.

 

Last edited: Jun 30, 2021

The link

 

I don't know why so much Fuzz,
but this Modal Pentatonics (aka Super-pentatonics) are pretty much common knowledge..

I learned the idea about 15 years ago in the iBreathemusic.com portal, (which alas went down recently)
and I actually commented the idea in a previous post in this thread..

From them the one I used the most for its sound/practicality is the Mixolydian with no 2nd and no 6th..

But ofc the rest are very interesting too, even resembling some of the actual Japanese scales,
and the concept can be applied to any Heptatonic scale, no big secret just take two notes out and see what you get yo..


PS: In fact I got so much random obscure articles/images/texts about harmony/theory saved in a folder from that early era of the internet..
I may take a look and see if there's something worth bringing

 

Last edited: Jun 30, 2021

The information is there straight off the top of my head but seeing you want a link sure that's easy anyone can google half tone whole tone diminished. It is after all a diminished chord. Intermediate stuff. There are plenty this is the first Google came up with. I have known it for over 30 years - it's fundamental to scale/harmony theory taught in every decent music school in the world.
Using stolen's terminology 1 b9 #9 3 #11 5 13 b7 or relevant to the topic A,A#, C, C#,D#,E,F#,G,A
F#diminishe7(b9)/A = F#, A, C, D#, G compare it to the half-whole tone above it's perfectly accurate.

Nobody intelligent writes it like that if they want someone to play it speedily. Because it has an A bass it's an Am7(b5) add 6 - even a guitarist won't have to think too hard about that symbol.
The A diminished 7 and F# Diminished are in those notes. Simple stuff. Rudimentary, Here's a more compatible link seeing most of you are guitar players. This is the simplest one out there.

https://www.jazzguitarlessons.net/blog/diminished-scale-using-wholehalf-and-halfwhole-scales

 

Last edited: Jun 30, 2021

And there was also this great Instructional Video by Scott Henderson called Jazz Rock Mastery..

(Go to the 3:50 mark..)

Where he talked about overlying simple/regular Arpeggios and Pentatonic scales on Unusual places,
to get different types of sonorities from a given scale/mode/tonality..

I cannot seem to find the whole video, it used to be on Youtube,
but in any case I always thought it's Gold for any intermediate Guitarist..

 

Last edited: Jun 30, 2021

agree, I miss, or its hard to me to find the right place to post some stuff, instead of advanced music theory i propose musicology "Musicology is the scientific analysis of music. It is the study of socio-cultural phenomena linked to music, its evolution and that of its stylistic elements through numerous disciplines; biology, cognitive sciences, ethnology and so forth."

to me the problem of music theory is the sort of analisys of what sounds 'good' or normal, or how things should be done, without any base more than the analisys itself, I mean a new genre develop musicians adopted it and many compositions are made, then it's analized, patterns found and formulas to repeat or apply those patters are studied, but if is experimental, out of TET 12 its very relative the analisys, inclusive some theories are rater religious and instead of promote creativity is just blocking it.

there are some comments that probably we are almost all agree are plain non sense, as someone said that chords must be in x y z way, its demostrated that works that way, solos are better in that x y z and blah blah, that reminded me those standards to practice jazz solos, after a bit it feels so tedious, boring and predictable, staple jazz, amd i guess this happen to everyone, then you recognize that sort of staple jazz as Jean Luc Ponty, his solos were the only relatively interesting thing, the rest of the music while it sound good at the beggining, it's just that staple boring formulas, 0 creativity.

The opppsite is also true, Gentle Giant was a so weird band, mixed so many things, but still today inspire musicians, and the analisys of their music is pretty hard, while a very unique and distintive style.

So musicology can go quite further, for example we could figure out musical stuff from bela bartok, tom jobim, john mclauglin, zawinul, trilok gurtu, yoko kanno, that is rather underground in the fields of music theory, also could be interesting to get into methaphysics of music, history, for example Chick Corea making rather crazy compositions to introduce Scientology or Alberto Spinetta with an entire Album based on Carlos Castaneda, the motivations, purpose the human part.

 

Hey GabsIT, thank you for the Inspiration.

 

Last edited: Jul 1, 2021

First things first



So what are you doing then? Surveillance?


On the 1st page of this very thread you may find

By Ad Heesive



Myself



All in all, you're nothing but complying (unfortunately) with the fishing net/showdown/show-off suspicion.

 

Seriouslly? Aren't you confusing symmetry in 6-b3s (HW / WH) with symmetry in 5-4ths (what Dorian is actually about)?

Check this out: ( F# Dorian - relative minor of A Lydian )




Regarding my previous example - A Dorian

I could have labelled it as Am7(13), but instead I've chosen to bring to attention that the "Dorian intention", in its simple form, it's the first inversion of a diatonic F#m7(b5)(b9), hence R-b3-b5-b7-b9.

As you say, play the way it's proposed on your instrument and check if soundwise it matches.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2021

Could you please better elaborate on that one?

 

To the extent it makes you infer I've stolen from someone else, is my waffling that good to you? I'm flattered.

Yes BD, it all comes from this "dark-minded-self-taught-moron" and it all began the moment I've decided to pay attention/analyze what I just have played and what my instrument of choice was showing me.

So right there you may find those 3 fingers pointing back at you.

Could please highlight where/when have I personally offended you? Anyway, you seem pretty condescending to insulting and foul language when comes down to your peers, e.g. George31.

If somehow I really did it, I take it back. I'm sorry.

 

Seriously you aren't looking at the notes in it and seeing what an actual player would play live? That is where the chord comes from. A half-educated player would gravitate that way not to your stolen chart that is not even yours. You assumed me and others did not understand it, that is why people gave you shit. Music has multiple approaches and alternatives. There is no ONE way to do anything only a fool thinks that.

Musicians tend to do 1+1=2 or in this case, well, all the notes of the chord come from there. sheesh.. Go back to trying to look smart and leave people who actually play music to playing it who know better and can look at a page of harmony and improvise on it without psycho-analysing everything. Improvisation is not played that way by experts and it is definitely not taught that way. It is taught in a sequence. If you have been playing for over 4 decades professionally, have books, CD's, LP's and more tell me how much of an expert you are. I have been playing that long and a few more who do not post but they PM. You are like that little child who cannot handle it when someone tells them there is another way to do it or a practical way that is more efficient or that the roots they are putting forward are nothing more than an attempt to flex their ego. It's sad. Look at the notes and tell everyone here that F#,A,C,D#,G is not the chord you put up. How you put it up is not how a seasoned performer would approach it full-stop. Argue all you like I no longer care. Post your sources or be a fraud, I could not care less.
Also when you say 'I play through the modes' - Look at ANY University degree that includes modes and see which year of a Bachelor's degree they study this as an examinable and performance exam study. It is not in the last year unless it requires zero facility to play an instrument.

No, you aren't putting up all your own work, your handle even says that, you lack respect and I doubt you are older than 40 if that. Everyone is looking at someone else's work you copied and you are calling it your own, that is sad. Hermes-Mercury posted the link. At least give the actual author credit because without it there's no credibility. It makes the person look like a charlatan and a fraud without acknowledging the author when you post pictures and music that has the author missing.
I can do it without thinking it's generally what people who have been playing it for decades can do. Maybe you should try it. You pretend the information is yours which makes you a FRAUD. It's called respect to the author because without it you are stealing and it is not free to be stolen.

No, people who actually still manage to make a career out of music in COVID and teach this find it disgusting when people like you refuse to acknowledge any possibility other than their own.That attitude stagnates progression. So the people who do not want to read 20 paragraphs of someone trying to be clever who steal someone else's work do not have to stay there to try and get what they actually came for.

Continue with your thread and stop pretending. Ad Heesive makes no pretence of anything other than who he is and acknowledges where he gleans information from. You steal it and call it your own. That is offensive to anyone with integrity. You have very little and people who have played and taught this for decades with awards not a random publication on web site, actually published in major Universities and academic journals feel much the same way.

So if you wish to insinuate I am unqualified you would be incredibly wrong. I have three degrees, the difference between you and me is I can also play my instrument really well. I'd have to considering how long I have been a professional musician and involved in imparting your babble so people actually understand how to play it. Get back to your topic. If that was all you did this conversation would never existed except you threw childish and veiled insults at people in three consecutive posts because like a child, nobody involved you. I read for a long time without posting in places, nor addressing you in any way, shape or form to see how OCD and unbalanced you are. You could not help yourself or made insinuating comments that fooled nobody with a brain if someone else did not involve you or they did not agree with you. Tragic.

Get back to the topic and stay away from snide comments because you are obviously not bright enough to realise that is exactly what caused the attacks on you.

 

Last edited: Jun 30, 2021

Stop playing the stormbringer and show everyone the sources you are accusing me of stealing from.

This is were Hermes-Mercury's link leads me to:

 

Three lines:

- Academics are used to read quite a lot and, thereby analyzing the content, they emit their opinion about it, avoiding shallow fallacies;
- And yes, of couse you've been checking me, surveilling, stalking;
- You're just hurt, not to say you sound very envious.

 

WRONG i have been reading OTHER PEOPLE's contributions. If you check with the moderators or look on this very thread,I actually set you to ignore at one point.
If you were half as intelligent as you make out and weren't so self-aggrandising while stealing other's work, you would have seen on this very thread that is EXACTLY what I did for nearly six pages and I only replied to them because you were ignored.
Stalkers and losers are people like you who fail to acknowledge that someone else may know something you do not child. Or they have something they want. You have NOTHING I want.
GET BACK TO THE TOPIC. I am not remotely envious. If I believed at 17 I would become like you 40 or more years later, I would have become an accountant it would be less boring and I probably would have made more money.

 

Here we go again... the old dated scarecrow fallacy of real world/playing live, etc...

It's pretty much clear upwards. The Dorian simmetry has been presented to you, that's why it sounds like Dorian and not HW/WH, altough you may insist in not getting it.

 

Please tell the entire world why performing music is a fallacy and your theory is more important than actually playing the theory. Again you are circumventing the very reason your stolen theory exists.
Look at the notes theoretically I put up seeing this is all you are capable of. GO BACK TO THE TOPIC.

2nd year Bachelor students study this. You do know what to do with what you have put up? do you?? Do you believe I do not understand it? OH DEAR.

 

But you can't help to come back to sneak-peek, ain't you?

That's how you got it since the beginning, and will insist on it to death. I'm not here to play the clever-self-indulgent-prick you try to portrait me as, but to share my take, for free, different from you.

Yes you are, indeed. Maybe you got there, not as an accountant, yet not liking what you see on the mirror.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2021

There was a reply missing in the conversation which made no sense with it missing DUH !! You are really not capable of thinking outside of your own petty grievances are you?

Then allow other perspectives. You do understand that in life, not everyone will agree with you do you not? If you do not then you will face this until you do. I have no issues with your analyses, I have an issue that you refuse sometimes to accept that other people have a different perspective to yours that works equally as well.

Then you know nothing. If you knew what I do, where I have been, what I have done it you would know I have nothing and nobody to be envious of. But please use whatever misguided logic you need to justify that that your very comment here is not how you put it a "clever-self-indulgent-prick",

Get back to the topic for the fourth time please. You get back what you dish out and you cannot handle it. At least you had the decency to speak directly instead of prior cowardly insinuations at people. It is cowardly to do that and surreptitious.

ALSO - remove any pointing to your actual name on a forum. Forum sensibilities 101.
I could not care less but those concepts exist to protect everyone. That is a neutral and friendly suggestion.

 

Last edited: Jun 30, 2021

What you, not me, make very clear to everyone: you're a negationist, which refutes the obvious for its own pleasure at doing so.
I'm still waiting you to walk your talk and show the world which sources I have stolen from.

That's indeed very mature.

It's your individual/subjective choice, not the BD almighty rule. But if you insist, I digress, you did not get it and insist in confusing others.

Would you please allow us to go back to the topic? No more noise?