Does jitter free midi keyboard exist?

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by dingoday, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. dingoday

    dingoday Member

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    I get that the midi output of a daw has big problems but i understand its the case also with inputs.

    So is there a way to input midi into a daw without "jitter"? (inconsistent latency)

    Otherwise if i play notes, after the rec the stuff is all over the place?
     
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  3. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    What do you mean? Millions of people just plug and rec their keyboards without the problems you mentioned. Did you try it?
     
  4. dingoday

    dingoday Member

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    You play and you get whatever your daw decides is cool: 2ms-10ms jitter. I bet these midi problems dont only go one way but two ways and that means your midi keyboard is not giving you what you played.

    Isnt it well know that only the midi inside a DAW is tight? Everything else is not unless you go with special tools. And i see these special tools like sync gen 2 and exper sleeper things are only for midi out of the daw.
     
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  5. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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  6. dingoday

    dingoday Member

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    Yeah i see nobody gets my point and its fine. "Just play shit and quantize it straight, millions of idiots on soundcloud do it erryday and we enjoy all their music"

    :deep_facepalm:
     
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  7. dingoday

    dingoday Member

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    Thanks buddy but thats midi out from daw hes talking about there. Im talking midi in to softsynth which nobody in the world seems to think is worth anything
     
  8. fiction

    fiction Rock Star

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    Depends on what you mean by "MIDI".
    If the serial link that transmits your MIDI data runs on the classic 31.25 kbaud data rate then the jitter will depend on the amount of notes, the order of notes and all the other messages that are sent over the MIDI link "at the same time".
    Add the usual 1ms MIDI message capture interval inside the OS and you get jitter in the milliseconds range.
    You might be able to improve that by using a keyboard that supports a high-speed USB MIDI link but honestly I can't tell you because I never cared too much.

    In other words: If you want it jitter-free then you'll have to build your own ecosystem based on a realtime OS.

    Good luck nonetheless!
     
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  9. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    When people mention MIDI jitter in or out of the DAW, which absolutely does exist [@Avenger], especially with older USB chips, and it got somewhat better with new USB 2.0 controller chips, I always mention this example: studio environment, professional drummer, Alesis electronic drumkit with DM2 drum machine > USB 2.0 into a nicely assembled [by yours truly :)] PC and triggering Addictive Drums. What he tried to record didn't sound the same, so the owner called me to investigate. After inspecting the really nasty MIDI jitter I/O [by the way these people don't quantise their music] I disconnected USB from DM2 and connected it with normal 5-pin MIDI I/O into the RME 9652 MIDI I/O = problem pretty much gone. It still wasn't 100%, but so much better that they were satisfied with the recording and since then stopped using USB for unquantised drums and fast keyboard parts.

    Think what you like. True story. I'm doing the same at my studio. Quantised stuff goes through USB MIDI, unquantised through RME MIDI ports.

    Cheers!
     
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  10. dingoday

    dingoday Member

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    Thanks, intresting points. Maybe the pci midi is the god-tier of what is available. I got some ideas but we really need that custom ecosystem Fiction mentioned
     
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  11. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    @dingoday Hi. I'd be interested to know what controller keyboard you are using please.
     
  12. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    I know. As I said I misinterpreted the quotation marks here
    and 'all over the place'. I thought he was talking about some strange kind of mess, my fault.
     
  13. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    And I just thought OP had realised he doesn't play as tight as he thought! lol
    But seriously, that's still a huge amount of jitter.
     
  14. thecastermaster

    thecastermaster Ultrasonic

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    JITTERBUG.
     
  15. Trurl

    Trurl Rock Star

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    USB interfaces absolutely have major issues on WIN any time I have tried it. But a MIDI interface which then goes into a USB port works fine- don't ask me, no idea why.
     
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  16. MYCbeats

    MYCbeats Platinum Record

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    Hardware that has well programmed midi drivers. This is only a hunch, but I'd guess controllers that are "plug and play" probably use some crappy generic windows driver.

    I personally don't care about jitter so its only a small reason why I run my 12 synths and 3 controllers over 5 pin with a Motu midi express. (The main reason being that the ports are always visible so I don't have to troubleshoot USB connections every time I turn on a synth).

    So yeah bunch of controllers with their own drivers plus synths with their own drivers, you'll have more jitter than a belly dancer.
     
  17. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

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    Yeah, but it's not just that. If it's that at all.
    There is a huge difference between cheap MIDI keyboard controllers and, uh, mo' better ones.
    Anything pre-M-Audio, ie nearly twenty years ago, was tight af.
    Then along came all the cheapo builds, with cheap key contacts which get worse over time.
    I've been using MIDI keys in my trade since the start of MIDI, so I've had a long time to watch the ride.

    The cheaper M-Audio stuff does exactly what the OP described.
    I'm interested to know what the OP was using...
     
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  18. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    Don't buy Expert Sleepers solutions in any case,their products are a bad joke.
    Few times after I opened the thread @No Avenger mentioned,I bought the ESX-8MD,the ES-40 and a case (total cost around 400€ +the cost of the software+cables) and in the end no noticeable improvement.

    The problem is USB,nothing else.I wonder if the jitter is better under Mac OS .
     
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  19. quadcore64

    quadcore64 Rock Star

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    There are many factors that determine how input is handled & at what speed.

    First usually, is to make sure that you are not using a normal USB hub to connect your keyboard.

    Another hindrance is USB power saving along with any background tasks interfering with USB functions.
    This coincides with system Optimization for audio production.

    ASIO buffer size can also cause input MID lag.

    If available, DAW priority settings for ASIO can reduce overall system lag.

    Everyone's system will perform differently for the obvious reasons but, the basics of system optimization & fine tuning are what help to even the playing field so to speak.

    I am using my controller thru USB 3.0 without the included driver. Letting DAW recognize directly & tweaking setting as needed inside whichever DAW is be used. Lag is very close to zero latency. Very hard to notice.
     
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  20. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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  21. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    I'm not so sure about the USB MIDI interfaces, either, because in my case we've been using Steinberg's Midex-3, however not all USB MIDI interfaces are made equal, either.
     
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