Hi everybody,

I'm posting a new thread because I'm having a very annoying trouble with my hardware synths and my DAW.
I have a problem of midi jitter with all my synths from 2 to 8 milliseconds.Like most of us I presume.
I would know how you have solved this problem (if you have solved it).

My DAW is Studio One v4.5.1 on a pc Win10 Pro,with a i7 8700,a Asus z390 Prime motherboard,16GB and a fast SSD.
My audio interface is a RME UCX and I'm working with a buffer of 48 samples

My synths are a Elektron Analog Four MKII,a Korg Minilogue XD and a Roland SE-02.
Their audio is connected to: Elektron on my UCX and the Korg and the Roland on an Adat converter Presonus.
The 3 synths are connected in midi via USB.

I've tried different usb ports,a pci to usb card,I've also tried to connect the synths via their midi DIN ports to my RME but nothing changes the midi jitter.

I've tried with several DAWs,Ableton,Cubase and Studio One but they all have the same problem.

I have spent one entire week to try different buffers with the different synths and the longer is your buffer and the worst is the midi jitter.


The big mess with midi jitter is that if you're recording (for example) 1 note on each beat (in 4/4) on 1 bar,the 4 notes are delayed in a variable and unpredictable amount,so you can't compensate that with some track delay.I become crazy!!!It's a big problem with percussive sounds.


From what I have read and searched on many articles and forums on the web I could solve my problem with 2 solutions.

_I must buy that,the E-RM Multiclock (500€):

https://www.e-rm.de/multiclock/

But it's 500€ and I would like to do something else with that money,like buying an other synth or plugins for example.And I haven't this money at this time...

And more important,I don't know how I could use this midi clock with my setup since Studio One can't be midi slave.And I really don't like Live.
If I could send a midi signal to Studio One,this thing would be a good solution I guess.

_Or the second alternative would be the Expert Sleepers USAMO (120€):

https://expert-sleepers.co.uk/usamo.html

But this box receive an audio signal via the audio interface (by a plugin in the DAW) and converts this audio signal in a midi signal that you can send to your synths.

But I don't know where my problem comes from,is it from my DAW,my PC or from my synths??


Here is my problem,have you any suggestions or ideas,please?

 

Last edited: Sep 4, 2019

bump

 

I bought E-RM Multiclock... Problem fixed.

Not much else to say...

 

How exactly have you measured the jitter? Where does the jitter originate from?

Sounds like one of the Windows problems. Have you changed this setting and compared the effect?
System > Advanced > Performance Settings > Processor Scheduling: Switch between "Programs" and "Background Services".

Note that you can never get "perfect timing" with a current desktop OS like Win or Mac, they are are non-realtime operating systems. Windows 3.1 was the last OS that allowed client software to directly access a hardware timer and offer somewhat realtime MIDI message scheduling and transmission. Cubase Windows version 1.0 had rock-solid MIDI timing just like the old Atari ST.

Forget the Multiclock or other hardware devices, they can only send and stabilize MIDI clock but they cannot fix timing variations in MIDI notes coming from your DAW.
RME is known to write good drivers so if you've already given Windows background processes higher priority and still have this jitter, then I have no other idea how to reliably fix this.

 

I'm using Expert Sleepers ES-40 and an ESX-8MD withSilentway works great for me on Cubase

 

Try Reaper and try Asio4All , using this config , with Korg Triton rack midi via Presonus AudioBox i2, Korg M3 midi thru usb with MIDI-OX , Yamaha EX7 via NI Kore 2 midi . All three connected in cascade with audio Yamaha to Triton , Triton to M3 and M3 to Presonus .
Hope soon I will buy a mixer ...

 

Fluctuations of midi clock was my primary reason for buying the E-RM clock. For synth & fx parameters based around tempo it brings a noticeable improvement to the audio quality. I primarily use this with an RME UFX II interface & a Babyface Pro.

 

With the Expert Sleepers ES-40 and an ESX-8MD can you send midi notes , midi cc and midi clock

I'm Using RME AIO + RME Multiface

 

If nothing else works then yes, might be the last resort.
But first I'd want to make sure it's not the OS config.
@Blue definitely seems to send MIDI notes to the external synths, not MIDI clock.

 

Since MAC and Windows are not real realtime OS you will always have the problem! I have also tested several Daws always the same problem without Expertsleepers or E-rm Midi clock. To be jitter-free, unfortunately, nothing else remains to you than E-RM Multiclock or Expertsleepers solution :-( I was also insane because I already have Eurorack modules I've decided for Expertsleepers because it was cheaper for me than the E Rm Midi clock to which I have the advantage that I can expand with Expert Sleepers But that's the Modular debt that goes

 

I still have an example I own a Xenophone Hypersynth and if the part ne seq plays and you only the normal midi clock uses of Cubase and co is that so s.der jumping the seq groove breaks properly so that the rework as it is really schwirg because in the groove itself gets the worst fluctuations. With the Expertsleepers I'm no longer lucky!

 

I have recorded many midi events from Studio one to my different synths in audio.

Then I zoom to max untill sample unit and I count the diiference in timing between the midi note and the audio recorded,in samples.
In Studio One I set the time unit to sample,I count and I convert these samples in milliseconds.(in 44.1KHz you know have 44100 samples per second,the conversion samples of delay->milliseconds is easy)

I'll tell you if the difference is noticeable.Thanks,I forgot to do that!

You're right,sorry I also forgot to precise I want to use the Studio One' sequencer,so send the notes from Studio one to my synths.And send midi cc automations too.

How do you use the expert Sleepers devices in your setup,please?
How is your stuff midi connected?
Do you send notes from Cubase or do you only send a clock to your external synths?

I don't understand how the Expert Sleepers USAMO can send midi notes or midi cc messages to your synth(s),since it builds the midi from the audio of a plugin in your DAW...?? I have to say I'm intrigued....

 

it might not be the answer you want to hear ,but i struggled for years with various "solutions" to this issue, the only thing that really puts the problem to bed is a good hardware multi channel midi sequencer. Once i made my peace with that i was able to turn my computer into a virtual tape machine and occaisonal host for a couple of my favourite softsynths, ive never enjoyed sequencing analouge synths with a computer (apart from an atari)

 

If I choose the Expert Sleepers solution like yours,with the ES-40 and the ESX-8MD it costs me roughly the same price as the E-RM Multiclock because I don't have any Eurorack box and so I must buy one.The cheapest I've seen is the Doepfer A-100MC Raw.
https://www.thomann.de/fr/doepfer_a100mc_raw.htm

These midi boxes/modules Expert sleepers/E-RM are insanely overpriced for what they are!It sucks they are the only solutions for midi jitter free.

 

@Blue In cubase I go to my hardware audio configurations and say spidf out to the Es 40 module (in total mix of rme the spdif must be pulled up at playback otherwise nothing gets through)

Then I create a Normal Audio Track the route I put on my ES 40 Spdif Channel Out. Then I load in the first insert the Silentway pluging and set it for my needs (you have to deal with something) in the plugin I then set the midichannel one I have each set separately for my hardware devices (Sub 37 CH 1, Micro Brute CH 2, Behringer Neutron CH 4 etc) then I activate the clock (see photo). If I want to send midi notes from the Seq now I'll create a midi track which will be routed to the insert plugin slot 1 you will need a new instans from the Silentway plugin for each channel. I can also do some video on it maybe I even have one more on my youtube channel .... The Usomo it will work similarly I have not the unfortunately but also works with audio and usb but I think there is only one midi that was too little for me

 

Interesting,what hardware sequencer do you use so?
And how do you make a clean song with it?I mean you use your sequencer in song mode?It's very complicated and laborious,isn't it?

For me the Studio One sequencer and its workflow are far easier and clearer than hardware sequencers.I did that in the past and I remember I enjoyed to discover DAWs!

 

Last edited: Sep 2, 2019

#Blue, post: 421727, member: 23320"]If I choose the Expert Sleepers solution like yours,with the ES-40 and the ESX-8MD it costs me roughly the same price as the E-RM Multiclock because I don't have any Eurorack box and so I must buy one.The cheapest I've seen is the Doepfer A-100MC Raw.
https://www.thomann.de/fr/doepfer_a100mc_raw.htm

These midi boxes/modules Expert sleepers/E-RM are insanely overpriced for what they are!It sucks they are the only solutions for midi jitter free.

Yes this is the lowest cost the module can you find on ebay or you buy new on Thomann

 

Last edited: Sep 2, 2019

I use an Emu command station for sequencing midi equipped synths, and a novation circuit in conjunction with a midi to cv converter for cv only stuff. The sequencer on the command station is quite sophisticated and capable of full song arrangements. /though i often record various sections as audio into the computer and arrange them in the daw, i find it to be quite a useful hybrid approach that allows me take advantage of both approaches. The arpeggiators on the command station are very unique and incredibly useful...also zplane filters rock

 

Yes,350€ in total.So if it's the only and cheapest solution I know what will be my next buy...i need like you a midi interface with multiple Outputs for my 3 synths and of course for my next synths too!
Thanks for your explanations.

 

Look at Expert sleepers USAMO

https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/usamo.html