Does anyone agree with this EQ move using Shreddage and amp Sims?

Discussion in 'Rock, Metal' started by garyg199, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. garyg199

    garyg199 Newbie

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    I've been using Shreddage for quite some time now. I've had multiple different guitars from the series, and I seem to always be getting a similar result. Very high frequency fizzy thin toned guitars. Right now I'm using Hydra (8 string modeler) and Emissary with the NadIR, Toneforge Misha, and TSE x50 V2 as my amps. It seems that I have to low pass all the way down to almost 3k to get rid of that nasty high end, and then boost just a tiny bit using another EQ. I can't get good sounding, wet/fat tones using these plugins. I get real close! I just always feel like it's falling short. They're very high gain plugins, but even with the gain down, I'm still getting this issue. And if I turn it down too much, I lose too much distortion.
    Maybe it'sjust me always thinking it sounds bad, because it's my work, and I'm hypercritical. Don't know!

    Does anyone else use this technique with EQ? How can I get a better quality tone? Anyone know any tricks or other plugins I can try? Saturation? Transient expanders? Or am I just never going to get there because it's just not a real guitar?

    I know there's multiple Shreddage posts on here, but mines a little more specific, so hopefully someone can help me out. I've watched countless videos and read articles all the time for help. Just not sure what else I can do. I'm aware it may be hard to help without hearing it. Will try to get a sample up asap.

    Thanks!
     
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  3. minozheros

    minozheros Kapellmeister

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    I guess if you feel it is not there yet, then it most probably is not even if for most people it might be all good already. Anyways, one general thing i started to realize more and more, if I try to get something right and I just can't get it to sound like i want it to sound, I most probably have to attack my problem differently. Meaning if working with the high end does not fix it, maybe working with the low end will. Maybe try to reduce the high end in the source signal before you send it to the amps or boost it, depending on what is the opposite of what you would normally do. A lot of the time, at least with cases like this where you think you tried everything, the solution can be completely counter intuitive, so trying the opposite of what you want to achieve can be exactly what you need sometimes. No idea if that helps in your case though..

    Do you high-cut the amped signal or the source? Try a high-shelf if a high-cut does not work. Or a shelf and a cut. Another thing you could try is to find some "real guitar" recordings and run them through your amp setup to see how the result is different, if it is.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  4. garyg199

    garyg199 Newbie

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    That is actually a great idea! Thanks so much!
     
  5. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    I've no access to Shreddage gits, but just dl'ed Emissary and NadIR and tried with another git plugin.
    If you go for high freq sounds, you're right, than this combi tends to sound fizzy and thin.
     
  6. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Besides @minozheros 's good advise, you can find quite a few tutorials on YT about high gain plugin set ups. There's always an EQ involved. removing roughly <100Hz and >10Khz frequencies is almost a golden rule.
    Some cabinet IRs that are mix-oriented already do this but you better experiment yourself. Starting with an example.
    How about Hydra's own presets?
     
  7. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    After some more attempts I found out that is mainly due to the IRs that come with NadIR. But it's absolutely possible to make non-fizzy sounds with this combination. OTOH, maybe some of Xupito's IRs could help?
    EDIT: You could also make two different sounds, one more focused on the high freqs, the other more on the (low) mids and combine them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  8. Arabian_jesus

    Arabian_jesus Producer

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    Around 4kHz is also usually some problematic frequncies! Use a surgical EQ to cut away 4-5 dB if you find any :)
     
  9. Trurl

    Trurl Rock Star

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    I actually like Sonible SmartEQ's guitar setting. It tends to go a little boomy and thick on its own but it's easy to tweak into a good sound.
     
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  10. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    Indeed,EQ -especially low pass filter- before distortion is very helpful for sounds with a lot of high range content.
     
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  11. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    :) In one of my little experiments with this combi I used a low shelf (-5dB) right after the git, which gave a better result than after the cab emu. But this depends also on the cab IR itself.
     
  12. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    I've never tried an EQ before the amp, seems interesting.
     
  13. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Haha, me neither. But especially with EQs and compressors I often change the order just to see/hear what happens, and this way I found it out by chance.
     
  14. Parasite-B

    Parasite-B Producer

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    @garyg199, off-topic question, but have you tried Heavier7Strings at all? And if so, how do you find it compared to Hydra?

    Going back on-topic and bouncing from other comments, I always use a high-cut on the guitar, and let the bass guitar handle the low end. I also always EQ the guitar before adding distortion.

    I work with both Heavier7strings and live recorded guitar. Heavier7strings to come up with some riffs myself, as I'm shite at guitar, then let our guitarist take it from there. Either way, I always use Line 6 Pod Farm for the distortion.

    I hope I'm not rambling. Bit drunk and had about 4 hours broken sleep in... I don't know, over 46 hours.
     
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  15. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    I'm not a guitar head so I'm far of an expert for tracking and mixing guitars.But if it works for synths and drums,it should work for guitars as well.:unsure:
    The better is to always experiment new techniques.Sometimes the result is ok.
     
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  16. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    This discussion reminds me one video of a talented artist whose mixes are incredibly balanced and powerful,clean.He showed that he's used to use reverbs on insert on his tracks,and the distortion after the reverb.Also he uses very steep low cuts for bass sounds,like 72 or 96 dB/oct,though I've often read from mix engineers that it's not recommended.
     
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  17. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Audiosexual

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    On my pedalboard sits a parametic eq which of course is in front of the amp, as well as a chorus, dirt pedals, etc. If you are thinking like a guitarist you'll both like to as well as need to control your signal before it hits the speaker.
     
  18. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    I am afraid I'm not... :((
    I guess it's because of that, I use virtual guitars. So things like pedals (tubescreamer, wah, ...) or even a compressor before the amp I'm very used to, but an EQ right of the bat not. But I'll keep it in mind.
    On the bright side, I don't need a noise gate :disco::rofl:
     
  19. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Oh, now I remember. You also created the thread about death metal tone with two tremolo notes.
    Indeed they're interesting questions.
    And some things with Shreddage 3 guitars are troublesome. So I guess Eq before the ampsim is the way to go because the amp can amplify a lot previous problems.
     
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  20. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Ah, yes, one little stompy before the amp
    [​IMG]

    :rofl:
     
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  21. Death Thash Doom

    Death Thash Doom Platinum Record

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    Prior to going into the front end of any amplifier I always have at least a Boss NS-2 which I have found, for me at least to be the best solution for clearing up a high-gain sound without losing any of the wanted source signal, They don't start eating into anything I don't want them to/no chatter, I have honestly tried everything practically available including my Drawmer, dbx and Valleypeople dynamite rack devices which are staples/stalwarts for gating/expanding (and so much more in the case of the dynamite) yet they can't match the humble, trusty NS-2 from Boss. I didn't get along with ICP's decimators (and I have tried every one released), TC Electronic's Sentry is as close as I've come to finding something that can even touch the NS-2, Which was done via a lot of Editing via the TonePrint software. The one I've not got around to trying that is fairly new is Electro-Harmonix Silencer, Which I shall do as soon as I can.

    Inside the loop of the NS-2 I use a boost or low gain overdrive, I have too many to start listing out but the ones most often used are the Maxon OD808 (or you could go with an Ibanez TS808 as essentially it's the same circuit just built for Ibanez by Maxon), the Maxon 9 Series ST-9 Pro+ (It's a Maxon OD9/Ibanez TS9 but with some great additional features added), MXR Custom Audio Electronics MC402 Boost Overdrive (It's a lot smoother in the upper mid-range than any TS-type overdrive, Depending on the amp I'm hitting often decides which boost/overdrive I will use), DigiTech Hardwire Series CM-2, It's a really great TS808/TS9-alike in one well-made pedal, Laney Black Country Customs TI-Boost, It's a modern update of the Dallas-Arbiter Rangemaster Treble Booster. TC Electronic Mojomojo, Can get them for £30 and even less I've seen them for, Very useful and different than any of my other boosts/drives, The mids are preset/voiced just right whilst the bass and treble control are quite powerful if needed, Boss SD-2 Super Overdrive, It's a great alternative to a TS with a smoother, less pronounced upper mid-range but not as smooth as the MXR CAE MC402 they can be found dirt cheap too, Mesa Boogie Tone Burst which falls somewhere in-between a treble boost and a low-gain overdrive, It's usually plenty to bring an amp to life, tighten things up and achieve a heavy, modern high-gain sound, Fortin 33 and a TC Electronic old preamp/boost, Both are great for djenting djentiness obviously! Lastly, I'll mention the Klon Centaur, It doesn't work for every amp but for the amps, it does work well with, It works really damned well.

    My point is I never go straight into an amplifier's frontend, for any high-gain work I always hit the preamp harder whilst dialling back the gain and some of the highs an amp's tonestack.

    I have no idea what would be an equivalent of either of these in the software world but in case this is useful, for additional sculpting of my guitar sounds amongst other devices, The two devices I use most often for dialling in the sound I am after at the source are firstly Markbass's Super Booster. Its meant to be a DI box for bass guitar players with a healthy volume boost on tap, However, I bought it for the Markbass VLE & VPF Filters for both guitar and bass guitar use, I use that in whatever amp's FX loop that I'm using for the tracking and layering with different options, It works great in every amp I've tried it in), Those two filters/EQs are very powerful, It seems it has been discontinued http://www.markbass.it/product-detail/super-booster/ and the second is a great tiny little device by James Brown under the AmpTweaker name called the DeFizzerator: https://amptweaker.com/defizzerator/ James along with EVH whilst working for Peavey at the time designed absolute stalwart beast that is the 5150, A great that is still as relevant today for heavy, high-gain sounds, I've got 3 variations of the amplifier and I can't recommend James's pedals enough to players FWIW.

    Your mileage may vary, Hope you achieve the sounds that you are after, All the best and to all as always.

    Dean
     
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