I have a number of vinyl records that I would like to digitize in 32 bit, but I need some experienced help.

I'm trying to record the signal from my gramophone via the headphone output on my preamp into a digital recorder but (predictably) get a lot of hum and noise, so.......

Is there any hardware that I can put in between and solve the problem that way - or is there a smarter way to do it?

Thanks in advance

 

You need a phono preamplifier with RIAA de-emphasis (sometimes it's part of an integrated amplifier) to boost and filter the signal from the turntable cartridge to a level usable by other devices. Some turntables have a built-in phono preamplifier. In this case, connect the turntable's line-out to your analog-to-digital converter (ADC). If you have an integrated amplifier with a built-in phono preamp, as described above, use its line-out output. Some ADCs are built into turntables and have a USB output, allowing direct connection to your computer. Other turntables with just a phono preamplifier have RCA outputs that require an additional cable to connect to your ADC. Finally, you'll need recording software on your computer to capture the audio from the turntable.
P. S. There are turntables without any internal circuitry, in which case you will need all the devices mentioned above.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2024

Thanks @pratyahara

Super nice and detailed explanation

 

If this number of vinyls is not huge, follow the above @pratyahara advices, plus if the turntable is in metal case, ground it (there should be a screw to do that).
Better a belt driven than direct (unless is a high end turntable), Riaa preamp is mandatory (BTW any stereo amp with PHONO in is good).

If this number of vinyls IS huge, I personally wouldn't do it.
I started in 96 with Cool Edi Pro and I converted something 400 vinyls, (record, cut, clean, blablah), most of them now are replaced by higher quality digital versions.

 

When you say "gramophone" do you mean this?

 

Turntable, gramophone..... whatever LOL

Where I live we still call it a gramophone

 

What pre amp and digital recorder are you using? You can easily spend a lot of money chasing that clean sound.

Anyway the "traditional" chain goes

Turntable > Phono PreAmp > Audio Interface > Your Computer

But varies a bit as pratyahara described depending on equipment.

 

Another factor to take into account is the type of cartridge you utilize. MC (moving coil) cartridges generally yield a lower output voltage compared to MM (moving magnet) cartridges. Consequently, you may require a dedicated MC pre-preamp preceding your phono preamp, a phono preamp featuring a specialized MC input, or one equipped with sufficient gain to elevate the signal to an amplifier-compatible level. Certain MC cartridges are engineered as high-output MC variants to mitigate this compatibility issue.
To avoid repetition, please review this summary of the procedures required to properly set up your turntable.
http://audiosex.pro/threads/all-this-analog-gear-and-yet.74694/page-4#post-764538

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024

make sure you ground your grammaphone (turntable) and computer together, that will reduce hum. Boost your signal gain so that the signal is above the noise by a considerable level but not clipping or distorting. you may still need to process with izotrope or other software to remove static and low level background noise.

I find later albums from the 1980's onward digitize better because of better production equipment. 1970's and 1960 can be more difficult.

 

Yes, it's a huge pain in the ass.

 

I used this: Graham Slee Gram Amp 1 phono

 

Right. If I think of the amount of time I spent...
Now I still have some of those ripped files but eventually they'll be replaced by downloaded ones.

I must correct an info: I used SoundForge 3 (Win 3.11!) then 4 (Win 95) in 1996, then Cool Edit in 2000 or so.

 

As other have mentioned, unless you have some seriously esoteric recordings, too much time on your hands that you need to fill, for educational purposes or as a labor of love it isn't worth the effort.

There is no practical reason to record in 32 bits for a vinyl transfer, the noise floor in even the best phonograph is too high, it just wasted space. 32bit FP is even a waste as you should never clip a transfer and you gain nothing by clipping the input stage. Consider 24 bits, it is still overkill as your noise floor for the phonograph and the preamp but it allows you more headroom. Keep your average input level levels reasonable and under -20 to -18 and the resolution is there for you to add gain later and still have a noise floor well above that of q/e of the bit rate chosen.

Sample rate is more of a personal choice depending on on how you intend to process the captures later, but there are diminishing returns on higher sample rates as well. This is an other topic and you should experiment with it or it can be brought up later. Personally I would record it at 48K and call it a day for self-archiving.

It seems you have a turntable and you like how it sounds. Grounding issues aside, you might have better luck taking the output from the speaker outputs on your turntable rather than the headphone output.

If you have RCA type connectors on your phono outputs there are conversion boxes with a common ground so you can go from phono to balanced XLR 3 pin cable into your interface. This isn't a complex device, you can make one yourself with some soldering skills. (phono chassis grounds to box, box in RCA, box out XLR - XLR grounds box/phono/interface to common ground) you could also just buy a set of conversion cables for about $35 and usually that is enough for a decent signal. The grounded transfer box is an overkill solution for most applications, it might buy you 3-5dB of headroom for all the added complexity.

Don't forget to clean your discs with a good reputable cleaning solution and soft quality microfiber cloths. For warped discs to try and true them as best as possible before transfer. This can be done cheaply in warm (not hot, but a bit uncomfortable for humans) room with two plates of glass (heavy enough but not too heavy) and quality microfiber towels and a lot of time.

Even after all that, you might not get the transfer you want and might have rely on post processing tools like Capstan and RX work reasonable well, but the time it takes to use them and the time it takes to learn not overdoing things adds to workload.

If you enjoy doing things like this, it is worth doing but remember to take it slow and that it will take time and learning new things.

Good luck and happy tracking.

 

Discwasher brush and cleaner works well for cleaning records before "sampling" err archiving..

 

I would not recommend grabbing any vinyl record that has already been digitized and released by the record company itself. They digitize directly from their master tapes. The cutting process already significantly reduces the sound quality, regardless of the quality of your turntable. Further loss of quality occurs in pressing, where it is crucial to consider how many pressings are made from the same matrix (as with each pressed copy, the quality decreases), as well as the quality of the vinyl itself. Issues such as soiling and damage to the record, record warp and/or eccentricity, poor stereo separation, resonances, high noise, rumble and buzz, flutter and wow, and speed accuracy can also degrade the sound quality. Moreover, record companies utilize very expensive professional ADCs.
Additionally, consider the quality of your turntable drive, its cartridge, the tonearm, the needle pressure, if the needle is worn or damaged, cables, anti-skating mechanism, and whether they are all adjusted and set properly.

 

there are a large number of 78 rpm records on archive.org. if you look through the catalog, you will see,often, a list of what equipment was used including type of cartridge, many have multiple attempts with different cartridges so you can download and compare the audible differnces.

 

this is very true. the problem being many independent labels that never made it into the CD market. Also some of the early CD's had problems with being too sterile sounding due to it being new tech and producers were still getting their feel for the gear. So sometimes a digitized version of an album will sound better to you if you are very familiar with it, if it was also released as a CD in the early 80's - you may like the lp better

Also some relatively lofi recordings can still sound good, I have some pink floyd bootlegs from audience recordings that sound "good" considering their origin, of course Floyd have released some of their live shows from the 1970's - these are undoubtedly the best sounding since they are straight from the mixing board.

Also lots of stuff from the 1950's and earlier will never be available on CD and their are some interesting jazz and blues stuff on those old records..

 

Tape machines entered recording studios in 1947. So earlier recordings must be grabbed from shellac records. Microgroove records made from polyvinyl chloride (PVC) plastic were introduced in 1948.

 

make sure you are digitizing them with the best possible pre-DAC you can find and or afford and at highest sample rate and sampling frequency you can achieve.

 

As someone already said, electronically, you need a phono preamp, or use a receiver or hi-fi preamp that has a "phono" input on it. Attach the vinyl/shellac record disc device (assuming it has an actual electronic connection) to that "phono" input, set the receiver/pre-amp device to "phono" and record the line level signal that results.

The above is only the electronic portion of this process and is only HALF the battle in getting clean audio from vinyl or shellac discs. It should be noted that 78 rpm recordings had slightly different electronic pre-emphasis than standard vinyl. So using a standard riaa spec vinyl pre-amp with no compensation for 78 rpm recordings will employ the wrong emphasis/de-emphasis curves to audio coming off of shellac discs. Also the grooves cut into the shellac are larger than vinyl so special styluses are needed to get the most back from them. I have found from doing quite a bit of vinyl audio archival that no matter how good you think your software is, unless the vinyl/shellac discs are CLEAN (as in free of debris, dust, dirt and static) you will never be able to get truly distortion free or full frequency response recording on the digital side. I use a 3 step process to clean vinyl - however the same chem's and process used on shellac will attack the chemical makeup of the disc, so beware.

On the subject of software, I have tried a lot of them - diamond-cut, waves, wave-arts, Acon, etc, etc,.... NONE of them come close to the tools contained in the Izotope RX editor.

So to summarize, very CLEAN discs combined with the Izotope RX tools, it's totally possible to get acceptable results archiving audio from vinyl. In fact, most of the modern "re-masters" I have heard from ablums originally released on vinyl are disappointing in one of two (or both) areas. Either the "re-master" is changed format wise from the original (as in a different master was used or a different sub standard mix was done) and/or "modern mastering" techniques were used to finalize the digital re-release which removed any semblance of dynamic range and clarity from the original vinyl release.

 

Last edited: Mar 29, 2024