No, I'm not. Do you think BIAB is a minor program? try to do it yourself.

So what do you think they know about?

I don't call myself anything, I'm just telling you what my paychecks say

You know, I don't have interest in continuing with this conversation. I respect your opinion and your point of view. Disagreement is part of the beauty of life. Best

 

Last edited: Jun 19, 2022

@Pablo Cordal, I hope you don't mind. Here are my subjective observations about this thread.

I sincerely congratulate you @Pablo Cordal as a newcomer, on several points...

1) you opened a really nice thread with a good sincere question.

2) You received some interesting suggestions,
e.g., Instacomposer, Rapidcomposer, Scaler, ReMidi, and the online https://creators.aiva.ai.

3) You carefully explained how those constructive suggestions were interesting but not 'exactly' what you were looking for, and you very politely explained, and re-explained, that you were looking for tools to support composition rather than production.
But many just don't 'get it' with regard to composition versus production, no matter how many times you explain it.

4) You showed amazing diplomatic patience when you were flooded with pointless suggestions, many of which were amazingly irrelevant to your request for 'composer support in classical style' - even after you had re-explained it twice.
e.g., Sonic Cat - Purity, Hypersonic, EDIROL-Orchestral, EDIROL-HyperCanvas, MOTO Mach Five, GuitarPro, Reason,
which are ALL mind bogglingly off-topic suggestions.

5) And then finally you had to suffer being confronted by @Sani (widely assumed to be Foster - a forum legendary troll) whose sole purpose is to pour derision on your constructive goals, and start an argument; and you survived this encounter without losing your cool. Really well done!

6) At the end of the day, despite some nice suggestions, the only ones which came close enough to supporting your request are...
- the online https://creators.aiva.ai which you rejected for the same reasons I would
i.e., it's online only (but definitely one to watch if and when we can have a downloadable version)
- and your own suggestions, i.e., your opening suggestion Band in a Box, and your later suggestion Pizzicato.

So, some comments about your own suggestions.

Firstly, you seem very realistic and are therefore not expecting ridiculous ideas like "press a button and watch symphony pop out". These 'style-based generator' tools are obviously toy-like in their ability to generate musical suggestions, but they are still very nice toys and really can be meaningfully and educationally exploited in a creative workflow.
I've discussed these before in these places...
https://audiosex.pro/threads/some-v...especting-the-chords.65041/page-2#post-645846
https://audiosex.pro/threads/software-for-inspiration-in-musical-composition.51464/#post-444491

With Band in a Box
Although the styles libraries are heavily biased towards jazz, and various pop genres, they do have some classical styles...
See MIDI Styles Set 11: Classical
30 New Band-in-a-Box Classical styles inspired by the great masters (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms, etc.). PLUS! Classical MIDI-FakeBook: Over 200 performances of well-known Classical standards, performed in Band-in-a-Box 'chords and melody' format. Hear the great works of Chopin, Beethoven and Mozart in virtuoso melodic performances by Miles Black. See and learn how the great masters used similar chord progressions to those employed today. Change the styles for variations. Learn the pieces by studying the chords. Transpose the pieces to familiar keys for further study.

With Pizzicato
This might be more interesting than you first realise.
A very nice feature of pizzicato is that it can utilise Yamaha Format Style files.
There are thousands of Yamaha style files freely available on the web. Nearly every collection includes a few classical examples.
Here's one small example http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/styles/styles.htm
15 Classical Styles: Amadeus - Bach II - Bach Prelude - Bartok - Beethoven - Chopin Waltz - Debussy - Liszt - Mendelssohn - Minimalist - Modernist - Rachmaninoff - Rameau - Romantic - Stravinsky.
These should all slot into Pizzicato with no problems (and if not then try One Man Band or vArranger instead)

As discussed in the other thread links mentioned above...
- people can either sneer at these toys because they obviously can't come anywhere close to generating 'real music',
- or they think more positively and explore to see what they might actually learn by engaging with these 'brilliant toys'.

Cheers and welcome to the forum.

 

Last edited: Jun 19, 2022

@Ad Heesive
Thank you for your suggestions!

I did not know this one. Though BIAB is limited about composition (for me, it's more an arranger tool) I'll take a closer look, could be interesting from the harmonic & melodic points of view

I had readed about this, but did not pay attention - I have to look it more in depth. Thanks!

I understand the "play with toys" way of expressing music, there are some sounds in the market with huge emotional content. I'm interested in that road too. But as musician, in my opinion, if you only have that color in your palette you're very limited, it's like only playing one style. Another information is presented to the listener when you offer melody, harmony, lyrics & arragement, much more complete experience.

I have to remember here the proposed combination of remidi-Scaler 2-The Orchestra Complete 2 - very interesting workflow!!

 

Agreed. But it's a fun tool to explore in that grey area where composition and stylistic arrangement overlap.

I hope I didn't confuse with that comment. For me, "Playing with toys" is not an insult to the process. I also regard pianos and guitars as wonderful toys. 'Toys' and 'playing' are praise words for me.

Agree again. While I do love and respect the art of sculpting sound, I still think the underlying music is always vastly more important than the sounds. Even if the only sound you have is a raw piano, and nothing else, we should all still be able to hear the difference between beautiful music and boring music - irrespective of our subjective biases.

Agree totally. And of course the 'styles' feature in that combination comes from the fact that there are no limits to what MIDI you decide to feed into it.
I misjudged ReMidi the first time I saw it, I thought it was trivial. After some exploration I eventually decided there is huge creative potential in there. Both for importing stylistic influences from other people's MIDI files but also for transforming your own MIDI compositions in very interesting ways.

 

I was exploring creators.aiva and it is a useful tool and you can export the tracks in many formats including midi for editing the sounds. Thanks for pointing that page again.

Edit: Musia (musiaplugin.com) is another "must try" it helps you to compose an entire song in any genre like Instacomposer. You can download it free for 30 days. No warez.

 

Last edited: Jun 19, 2022

Look, my dear, I don't give people falsehoods and feed them with peddling misinformation.

Software developers can only help you with the build process, not the composition. Because composing is a very personal process and there are as many composing methods as there are people on earth, so no one takes the time to study them and come up with a common algorithm for all of them.

In addition, the available software is useful for making short songs, not long ones. Because the longer a song gets, the thousands of times more complex algorithms are needed, and because no one has ever been able to think up accurate and powerful algorithms for making long songs, you shouldn't expect software guys to come to your assistance and help out.

 

I don't think that developers are not able to create an algorithm to be able to make a program that suggests genres of classical music. EzKeys can now suggest any piano to another piano from another genre. That is, you play a pop music piano, then you choose one that sounds like jazz and it will convert it with the same chords to the jazz piano that I select. I have seen really incredible things that have been done in all this time. I can mention many. Like Melodyne, the Eq Match, the programs that sing for you with a voice package that weighs less than 100mb all based on algorithms. The thing is that everything is based on supply and demand. That is why perhaps there is no program based on classical music, instead, the developers are more dedicated to what the products or artists consume. Like autotune, auto mastering, etc. Think about this, it would not be convenient to release a program that is perhaps consumed by 10% of consumers. And that is why (I think) that this program has not been made.

Edit:

Perhaps you have in mind that an auto composition program or style generator is similar to your own creation. And of course that will never happen. It is not the same that a program tells you what to do and that you do it. If you do it, you will know what you are doing, you will put the chords that you think have to go, and your own inspiration is not the same as that of a program.
Each one can give you the utility you want.
I have used some as a reference, just to have a very quick idea of something else, then having that reference I already did my work by myself.
Now, if you expect the show to do your song for you, that's another thing.

I think something similar happens with Auto EQ, Auto Compressor, Auto Reverb, Auto Mixing.

So you may be lost, as many of us are. And not knowing what is wrong, then you can either take a tool to help you get your bearings, or, conversely, use these tools without you doing anything.
Then you will have two results.
1. A creation made by you
2. A creation made by a machine.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2022

Looking ahead, how long before computer programs actually steal from existing songs, changing the result just enough to avoid copyright infringement, all automatically? You can call me AI.

 

I understand less than 10% of people like/listen to classical music, so may be that's the reason that program does not exist. But I think that's a miscalculation. 98% of the people consume films and TV shows and (in my opinion, exception/generes appart) there's no music more addecuate for image than the orchestral one. So why not?

 

That's something different (I think).
Because the musicians who make music for movies are musicians, and they themselves create each content. The other day I saw a musician who made music for movies and explained with a synthesizer how he did each part and inside he had a scene and he was playing live while the movie scene progressed. Imagine that for each scene you have to create a special atmosphere.
For that, it should be a very intelligent program that recognizes each scene and assigns a particular sound to it. Which would also become a bit boring. And I don't think a movie producer is more interested in a program than paying a musician to do it the way he wants.
Also, I don't think there are as many musicians making movie music as there are musicians making commercial music. (It's my point of view).

 

Today's orchestral music that you hear in movies or on TV is more like a joke. This music model does not need a powerful composition and is more like mixing the sounds of musical instruments than the real composition.

In other words, mixing has replaced composition and almost all existing tools focus on mixing rather than composition.

 

Totally Agree

Totally Agree

But it's a pity guys, movie music today it's like when in the 1910's you went to the cinema and there was a guy playin the piano (and that guy did play like 1000 times better than what I hear today). If the goal is the money, the movie sound companys are doing right. I'd like to know the artists (who work for them) opinion about this composition/production method. If it was me, I'd feel frustrated. I personally need more time to produce music (that I respect and like) than just "play it". May be it's just me...

 

That depends on each movie or series producer.
For example, the animated series, Family Guy, is recorded with real musicians, and they are not synthesizers, they are musicians who play wind instruments, piano, etc. So I heard the creator of the series say, I also think he is a music lover
But I don't think this is the only house either. Many movies focus on the quality of their content. Music, special effects, etc.
In my opinion, the more elements a movie has, the better it is. The music is also part of the movie, so if the music doesn't go well with the movie, it won't be the same, at least for me.
Look at the case of the movie "Back to the Future". or Indiana Jones, among many. If it had been composed by a machine, I don't think the song would have been as relevant, aside from the fact that the movies are great.

 

Of course I'm leaving apart John Williams, Morricone, etc

My "piano player" metaphor was more about TV series and TV films music, not big cinema productions. That's why I said that offering a "orchestra in box" program would be appreciated, because in these productions the budget is much more limited, and with a good program the quality of the music would be seriusly improved. But of course I understand that commercial music is the big piece of the cake.

 

Lol man this thread was a sh!t show...

Anywho, I think the perfect software for what you're asking would be Orb Composer by Hexachords. Version 1.4 is still available on the sister site but the latest version 1.5 is significantly better but is not available cracked as far as I'm aware (unless you purchase it obviously).

Weird thing is there doesn't appear any way to purchase it on their website anymore but it is available on pluginboutique. Its listed but there is no way to actually buy it on hexachords site. Probably an oversite by the developer as I'm almost certain hexachords is a one man show.

Its actually a pretty amazing piece of software for orchestral music , I'd suggest youtubing it at least.

 

Well I wouldn't call it "the perfect software for what you're asking"
but I do agree that it should be on the list with the other items that are 'heading in an interesting direction'.
It's certainly another really nice toy.
Seems to be probably dying though.
(obviously I'm sarcastically paraphrasing) but over recent years comments from Hexachord seem to have shifted from
"Our Orb Composer version 2 will be amazing"
"We don't really discuss Orb Composer anymore - see our Orb Producer instead"
"We've stopped selling the old version of Orb Composer - buy it from Pluginboutique instead"
"Our website is no longer called Orb Composer, now we're called Orb Plugins, and all our focus is on Orb Producer"

None of the above sarcasm detracts from the fact that Hexachord's Orb products are really innovative and well worth exploring.
Totally agree with @juggz143 that the easily available v1.4.4 is definitely worth adding to your toolkit.
Hopes for a cracked v1.5 - who knows.
Chances of future upgrades - almost certainly zero.

 

The comparison between the two quotes above is really funny.

You can see @Sani with the boringly negative
"I'm here to tell you uninformed naive people about what the software cannot do"

compared to @Ryck with the refreshingly positive
"This is what YOU can do with the software"

There are important philosophical attitudes on display there. One boringly passive, one creatively active.

(metaphorically) I suspect if we offered a bicycle to @Sani and @Ryck,
@Sani would just try to show off with his (delusional) superior knowledge and criticise how the bicycle doesn't float on water.
@Ryck would just say "That looks fun" and take the bicycle out for a ride.

You 'get out' in proportion to what you 'put in'

 

Last edited: Jun 20, 2022

Well at least that would make the AI a bit (a lot) more human.

 

hahaha it's true. But it is also my way of being. I think everything can be. If someone comes along and says they want a vst that makes dogs sing, I'd say why not?
We are in an art group, where everything is possible. If we limit the other, we limit ourselves.
I still think that it transcended into something interesting, beyond being positive or negative, we give ourselves a new panorama of things, right? Why not make a program that makes music for those who produce music for movies that can't pay well-known musicians (which shouldn't be cheap). You always learn something interesting here.