Hi guys,
I need help from mastering engineers or wise people around you.Here are the questions:

Q1. I searched on google and forums and youtube channels and found out that:
-itunes brings the tracks to about -18 LUFS, (everybody says different value Idk who to trust?)
-spotify brings to about -14 LUFS,
-etc
So it means it is impossible to make a one mastered track file which is perfect for all of these platforms (Same dynamic range, peaks, rms etc) ? If yes, I should take the average of the LUFS values of the platforms I would like to publish in for the right LUF value? If not, is it possible to create multiple mastered track versions for each platform? Will the label company let me do it, or the company will want it from me or the company will do it for me without asking ( For example Spinning records)?

Q2. I didn't understand it perfectly but I think these platforms uses some technologies (Ebu 128 one of them maybe?) and these tech let these platforms to bring all the tracks to same volume level (normalizing?). So it means these platforms do the second mastering for my song? Thats why, I should bring my LUFS to the right level with these platforms? If I dont do it, for example if I make it too loud (-5 LUFS maybe),it will be brought down to the standard LUFS level by the platform (spotify for example). I understood from my searchings that my dynamics will be kiled yes? If yes, why the fuck these platforms do this instead of just bringing the tracks to the same level by like for example a simple gain adding or reduction settings? I know, because to get all the tracks to same loudness level but, because of they do it mastered track will sound different from itunes radio to spotify to etc in terms of dynamics and loudness..

Q3. I analyzed songs from R3hab (mp3 files) with Izotope İnsight, and I see his songs are generally between -4 and -6 LUFS in the chorus/drop parts. So how the fuck it sounds same the mp3 file with in spotify and youtube in terms of loudness and dynamic range!? -4 LUFS means it will brought down to -14 LUFS when its transferred to Spotify, it means the track should be destroyed ( I means over compressed, distorted etc).but how the fuck it doesnt happens? Because he has multiple mastered versions for each platform maybe?

I really tried to ask you with less words, less confusion I hope I could do it! Thanks...

 

1.: this has nothing to do with edm
2.: see https://audiosex.pro/threads/loudness-on-different-online-platforms.25671/

 

my publisher needs to give a song a ircs code, this happends only once

well if you look at the chart in the topic that fraific posted,The only thing I see is the risk of loosing dynamics in spootify,
I say risk, but in reality it only applies to extremly dynamic tracks, thus a little compression won't change that much

isn't it the other way arround? the dynamic range of -6 is lower then -14?
If -14 lufs is the target, and -6 is your current avarage readout, I think they just lower your track 8 db
since there is no way to restore dynamcs without signifaccantly changeing the sound.

 

Why?

Thanks for the Link!

I would be happy if you could tell me more about it ( I dont know anything about isrc codes, do I have to? I just want to work with a label comp. not myself) . If I send my track to a label one mastered track and they do all the rest for the platforms for publishing you mean?

In fraifikmushi's chart it is mentioned that tracks mastered over -11 LUFS (kind of loud tracks I mentioned, for example -5 LUFS R3hab songs) will be turned down.

Im really confused now...
I want to export the best possible mastered track (very loud with maximum dynamics possible) for my edm track for sending to spinnin' . The songs in Spinnin' are generally in the -5 LUFS values in the izotope insight meter. but their songs doesnt sound quiet on neither o youtube, soundcloud or spotify. But the graph fraifikmushi showed and my searchings show that loud tracks should be overcompressed or lowered in the volume to be brought to the platform LUFS level. But it doesnt happen with Spinnin' songs.Whats happening? What should I do?

 

You need to watch some data on PLR value and what it does, LuFS isn't enough to properly monitor, measure and compare loudness especially for online streaming. For example YouTube normalize everything (not only music videos) at 8PLR, while the LuFS value can be really different. This is a start of answer to your topic.

Also, I very, very highly recommend you to watch tons of videos from Ian Shepherd : https://www.youtube.com/user/masteringmedia

This mastering engineer will tell you everything you need to know about EDM (or not) Mastering and how to make things right when exporting/uploading to streaming sites.

About sending masters to big labels like Spinnin', I'd say you should stick to the basic EBU128 and Red Book (understand CD standard) rules, they'd take it from here if they provide you any online release.

Also, get this asap https://audioz.download/software/wi...-audio-mastercheck-v1108-incl-keygen-r2r.html
Will bring you a whole new world of Master Metering, including PLR metering. There is even presets for YouTube, Spotify, EBU, Soundcloud etc to get it right, you can also match level (!) as you want for each presets.

 

Last edited: Aug 30, 2016

Thanks for the information I will search about them and watch these videos right now

I really wish somebody tell me, why the mp3 tracks from Spinnin songs, shows around -5 LUFS in my meter while they sound same in the -17 LUFS spotify, -14 LUFS soundcloud etc and -5 LUFS in mp3 ...

 

First, very loud & maximum dynamic is contradicting. in terms of loudness metering, very loud would be considered a lack of dynamics.

I understand why you are confused, a track can give a feeling of being really loud even if it has lots of dynamics,
but still, if we talk about dynamic range and "loud" means not much dynamics.

Compression only occurs when the dynamic range is is too big, (according to the chart only in spootify)

so material you (arguably) have over-compressed, let's say -5 lufs (it has a low dynamic range) will be lowered 6 dB volume.
no other processing is used, theoretically it still has a dynamic range of -5 lufs. but the levels now are average the same with all content across the music store.

 

that is because most meters start at 0 dB rather then the highest peak, this is logical because the meter can't see in the
future you want to meter what is really going on you'll have to normalize the different versions to the same peak or use offline metering (scan the whole track)

 

I cant answer this without confusing you and me haha but I'm 100% sure that's a typical question Ian is answering in his videos, you'll understand after knowing about PLR and what's its relation to Loudness compared to the "olds" LuFS or RMS

 

So, For spotify for example its LUFS is -14. If my track is -5, it will be lowered to -14 by just lowering the volume, no compression and if my track is -18 and it will be gained to -14 thats all? compression starts only if dynamics range is higher than a given X value? I understood correctly?

 

I dont think these guys (same for YT/SC/Itunes etc) use something simple as gain staging. It would be too inconsistent. It has to be related to some kind of Normalization, but more complex obviously

 

Thank you all guys!
I downloaded the nugen mastercheck and now I will start watching the videos RedThresh showed me and start analysing. I hope I will understand whats going on, I wont stop until I find out until tomorrow ;)

 

loudness is not an edm invention.

 

According to the chart, Yes you got it.

According to the chart Spotify does that, what sounds kinda kinda wacky to my ears.

I have a hard time believing that Spotify compresses it till it hits dr-8,

side-note: that could be just because of the time windows and weighting that has been used to make the chart, without that information it's still guessing.

 

http://productionadvice.co.uk/spotify-loudness-formula/
Check the videos of this engineer, covers all you need to know about online loudness.

 

If you're so confused about the whole mastering concept and you're in a hurry why not trust a mastering engineer-study things later?
I see you care so much about measurement units and platform differences, you forgot to use your ear.

Mastering is not just using an analyzer or a bunch of mix checker plugins or even watching some tutorials. you should develop the skills. it takes time and effort.

 

Im very perfectionist person even though it gives me disadvantages I cant change myself and I dont want to. I just want to do whole process on my own to control everything to make everything how I want it. It took my years, give me sleepless nights, I had very hard times, anti-social times but Im here now, I understood somethings very well and I feel like little bit left for my publishing, after then I will start studying again and again.

As far as I know, I will do my mastering in around -5 LUFS as always and wont care about other things, because for my searchings all edm producers and labels do the same.

 

Now that I recall, our very dear member @fuad has many courses on EDM mastering. it's very informative and even though I never get the chance to meet him, I know he has years of experience in this field and contributed a track to the AudioSex community album back in 2014.
You can find them here in case you're interested: https://www.udemy.com/user/fuadmurad