You really should get into LINUX ! ! !

Discussion in 'Linux' started by 0on3, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    The main problem with audio drivers in Linux is the user. You have to learn how to "modprobe" and you have to read about ALSA at alsa.org before proclaiming "my audio interface doesn't work with this shit". I have RME9652, TC Konnekt SK48 [firewire], Akai MPD32, Novation Remote SL37, Presonus Faderport classic connected when I work in Linux and they all work impeccably with ALSA and class-compliant devices like my MIDI controllers just work out of the box, just like in MacOS and Windows.

    I'd say main problem of Linux is not Linux itself but unsupportive developers and audio software companies. There's still this "catch 22" - developers say not many people use Linux for music production and we say there is not enough audio plugins and programs to work with in Linux. :sad: Yabridge is pretty good and can help with running Windows VSTs in Linux, but I don't like using non-native plugins as they always come with a CPU overhead, which is admittedly pretty low with Yabridge, but it's there.

    Still, I can actually use Linux for music production because I'm "cheating" by using lots of hardware and I'm using pretty cool effects from TC SK48 and Yamaha A5000, A3000, E4XT and Akai S3200. I'm pretty much covered with those. However, I couldn't do the really quality production that I'd like with these and I always at least have to master tracks in Windows [7] for now. I still work mostly with Windows when it comes to tracks I really like and have high hopes for.
     
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  2. Qrchack

    Qrchack Rock Star

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    ...and Android is the worst platform to work with audio on, abandoned by most in the industry because of years of frustration trying to achieve remotely decent performance - just like Linux :)
     
  3. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Audiosexual

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    you raised a lot points, which well stopped me from every thinking about going linux for audio production as its very neat for programming compared to windows.

    Thats why i find it very good that bitwig releases for linux too as a professional DAW. because lets be honest the other free DAWs on linux are a joke for professional usage. (Ohhh reaper is also linux so far i remember)

    Hope in the next decade we see more and more progress for linux being a definite alternative to mac and windows as an audio enviroment as it brings lots of good things to the table, just the mainstream support isnt there really.
     
  4. Qrchack

    Qrchack Rock Star

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    Well, you clearly don't.
    It's not. Straight from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_abstraction:
    There's literally nothing Unix about Windows NT, unless you count things like users and file permissions implemented differently and from scratch as being Unix-like. Certainly not "a type of Unix" though.
    Wrong again. MacOS is built on the XNU kernel developed for Darwin.

    [​IMG]

    There's far more than FreeBSD here, including Quartz, Core services (including Core Audio which is widely regarded as the best audio system implementation in any OS), QuickTime backed into the system, PDF support backed into the system, etc.

    As for lower-level stuff that you won't consider "GUI on top of FreeBSD", you also have a completely different service daemon named launchd which uses property lists for configuration. There's no init/cron/systemd on Mac.

    You also have mDNSResponder and .local domain for zeroconf discovery of devices and services using multicast DNS.
    The only reason you can do this is they're using FreeBSD userspace, and thus are largely compatible with it - though not oficially POSIX compliant. If you have software that relies on something remotely *BSD or Linux specific, it won't work without a rewrite for Mac.
    They have not. "Altered" implies they share a common base which they do not. The windows equivalents come from DOS which has no concept of multi-tasking or users to begin with.
    Nope. Two are Unix-like and share some userspace software while having completely different system underneath, and one has nothing to do with Unix whatsoever.
    And this is completely different across all three. The shell (sh/bash/zsh/csh) and software like "chmod, ls, ifconfig" is just a bunch of programs that run in userspace. Your chmod might function the same (though often there's some switches missing or some get added on specific variants for a given OS), but it's executing wildly different code under the hood - that's the actual operating system. On Mac you'll be talking to a whole different driver framework, different kernel, you'll be using a completely different filesystem, etc. You're literally saying Facebook looks the same when you load it in a browser in Android and iOS, so they're all just GUI on top of Unix.
    This is also bullshit, and in fact most clicks aren't executing shell commands, but instead get handled by the OS window manager (which again are completely different, even on Linux systems, depending on the desktop environment you're using) and passed to the application you're working in. So... no, it's not executing a command - it's sending a message to the OS, which passes it to the program you're running and it's handled there. No commands (in the sense of separate binary files, or builtin shell functions) are being used, instead the system APIs handle the communication.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
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  5. binarycoders

    binarycoders Member

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    Are people still using windows? :rofl:
     
  6. pizzafresser

    pizzafresser Producer

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    Once Windows 10 is no longer supported by the software/games I use, I'm gonna switch to Linux eventually. If I just used my PC for audio work I probably would have switched a long time ago. SteamOS made a good impression on me because of how easy it is to make games run on it but it looks like it's not really suited for Desktop PCs (yet):
     
  7. Havana

    Havana Kapellmeister

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    Before my Macbook Air, I had a Intel i3 4GB ram laptop so Manjaro :like: was the preferred OS of choice. I just wish it had better support.
     
  8. Unirorm

    Unirorm Kapellmeister

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    No. And those who do, are actors paid from Bill Gates and Sorros :goodpost:

    Operating System Market Share Worldwide - May 2022
    Android
    43.23%
    Windows 29.2%
    iOS 17.67%
    OS X 5.79%
    Unknown 1.93%
    Linux 0.95%
     
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  9. Trurl

    Trurl Audiosexual

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    Sooooooooo, if we ignore phones...
     
  10. Unirorm

    Unirorm Kapellmeister

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    Unknown is still the winner! (windows phone is still a thing, right?
     
  11. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Audiosexual

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    Windows NT was an edited form of VMS - straight from Microsoft's mouth. They purchased it. Clearly you do not know. Maybe get it from a reliable source - like the horse's mouth instead of Wikipedia which is edited by ANYBODY FFS. It's also regarded in any academic circle as unacceptable and unreliable. If you are going to crap on someone at least do not use a source than anyone can edit and Wikipedia is disrespected for accuracy at any academic level.
    If a 12 year old went in and put that ATARI made it would you believe it because it is in Wikipedia?

    Ask a Microsoft engineer while you are at it where the Microsoft HAL came from.
    They're all taught this.. Move the letters one HAL - IBM and WNT- VMS
    DUH.
    Windows NT comes from VMS - Stop using Wikipedia. CMD in current windows and WINNT used a command line. DOS developed into Windows for Workgroups. Get your facts right. Different beast. You clearly know nothing about windows. WINNT was designed as a networking environment, Windows for Workgroups, then Win95,98 up until XP was all ex DOS for home users like the MAC - different to WINNT. The MAC is useless in a networking environment other than as a connecting desktop.
    You can read up on Digital's VMS which MS used as the reworked HAL for the first WINNT. Every Microsoft engineer taught properly knows this. For years they kept the same code. Read the UNIX part.
    The Digital DEC ALPHA used to be incredible in its day. It's a relic now.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Digital-Equipment-Corporation

    By the way - The core services are loaded at BOOT in a MAC. This is PRE-GUI - The mere fact that to disable them you have to be in safe mode tells you that.
    Stop using Wikipedia - it's an unreliable resource. Try using a proper encyclopedia - They tend not to be the unregistered version like WIKI. Encyclopedias are not presumed to be unreliable. They cannot afford to be.

    IT PRO - WINNT & VMS
    https://www.itprotoday.com/compute-engines/windows-nt-and-vms-rest-story
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
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  12. demberto

    demberto Platinum Record

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    Even DOS wasn't a Microsoft creation, they bought it from somebody and it was called Dirty Operating System before I guess, because it was really bad.

    Its bad if you use Java/Kotlin for the stuff you should use C++ (NDK) for. Look at FL Studio Mobile 2, pure trash latency. In FLM3 devs rewrote the audio engine in C++ or Delphi I guess. Much better results. Even JUCE supports Android as a target, but AFAIK there is no VST3 host implementation for Android.

    That being said not much devs care about the platform. With JS and ever growing list of Web APIs like Web Audio and WASM, the day won't be far when we use a full fledged DAW entirely in a browser.
     
  13. BaSsDuDe

    BaSsDuDe Audiosexual

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    Yes - QDOS - here straight from Encyclopaedia Brittannica. Tim Paterson was the inventor.
    https://www.britannica.com/technology/MS-DOS#ref1278700
    upload_2022-6-12_18-55-5.png
     
  14. aleksalt

    aleksalt Kapellmeister

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    I'm late to the party...W/NT? Well, somewhere I've read NT plus Direct X plugins were the best thing for the production...
    see this:
    waves 3.2 plugin pack dx 2001 secret quality
    it's still downloaded on rutracker...
    and some say DI is better than VST...
     
  15. Daskeladden

    Daskeladden Rock Star

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    What planet are you living on?
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. phumb-reh

    phumb-reh Audiosexual

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    Again I think people should get into Linux, but to get there thinking it's going to be a 1:1 replacement to whatever you're running on is folly.

    Here's my suggestion (with practical outcomes!): get yourself a Raspberry Pi (gen 3 onwards) and setup a Linux distro on that. Then install Pi-hole into that. You'll learn how the approach differs, Linuxes are bottom-to-top where you configure the basics and then move on to fancier shit (like GUIs), whereas Windows/macOS are top-to-bottom where you start with a GUI interface and move deeper later on. On one of my RPis I run Pi-hole, MediaWiki (for my personal notes), and Gitea (for dev shit). A second one is one of my backup devices and file servers.

    But why Pi-hole? You can replace your DNS (name lookup) with an adblocking/anti-tracking with minimal configuration on other devices on your network. And it's good, it's well worth the price of purchase of the Raspberry (already very cheap).

    Then install a linux distro in a VM or in a spare partition, you'll see if it takes for you. Finally if you really want to run Linux as your daily driver you need to figure out what software you want, then pick the distro, then figure out the hardware that supports all of that.
     
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  17. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    I had also installed Linux a long time ago and even bought a book about Linux "Install, configure and use Linux".
    But I deleted it and now have only Windows, but has something to do with age.

    I even had BeOS on the hard disk once.
    BeOS is an operating system of the former Be Incorporated. Because of its multimedia capabilities it was also called "Media OS" by Be. However, it could not hold its own on the market and was discontinued in 2001. In the consequence among other things Haiku, a free re-implementation of BeOS was developed. www.operating-system.org/betriebssystem/_english/bs-beos.htm
     
  18. phumb-reh

    phumb-reh Audiosexual

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    I had BeOS R5 back in the day and it felt like the future. Haiku is great BTW still got it as a virtual installation, because nerd. I wish BFS would become a standard file system with it's metadata, and free audio routing should just happen. The only ones that can do it are really JACK on Linux and somewhat in a tamed manned CoreAudio. Technically WASAPI could do it but there's next to now support on that.
     
  19. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    At some point the full force of the game companies came, I think around 1999 and the gamer generation wanted to play and that's why Linux fell by the wayside. In our country there was and is even Linux which was used by city governments.

    Many ATMs ran or run under Windows 7. By the way, ticket vending machines also run under Win 7.

    Which operating system runs on ATMs?

    There are studies on that, I think it's the safe Windows XP most of the time. And that's a good choice, so a system that can't be maintained anymore, that's as stable as a frozen corpse on top of Mt. Everest. What could go wrong with that?
    In general, one must publicly advocate the further spread of Window Systems in security, medicine and monetary systems. This is a consistent policy and we don't want something like learning from experience in Germany, do we? That would be something new and novel, and we don't want that.

    In any case, I am strongly in favor of Airbus converting their shabby Linux systems for flight reversal control to Windows and of course coupling them with their Windows-based aircraft media center, because it makes no sense to have two computers on board if one can do the same.
    After all, what could possibly go wrong?

    Linux is such an insecure and unstable thing, servers we set up crash every two days, Windows systems last much longer, almost a week.
     
  20. phumb-reh

    phumb-reh Audiosexual

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    Calm down and accept that you're getting your history wrong.

    VMS never was "UNIX" so NT never was UNIX by any way. There have been several POSIX-compatible subsystems for both, most recently WSL.

    macOS was not UNIX either originally, having it's roots in NeXTStep which it is still today. Sure it's got the BSD userland but XNU is not a UNIX or BSD kernel. But macOS is one of the most POSIX-compatible systems anyway, being certified.

    Linux is basically a mutant MINIX clean-room implementation which does POSIX as well, but it's really the GNU userland that makes it workable.
     
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