Is there anything in the software world that can do a SY77 or something similar? I mean beyond the FM. DEX is not going to cut it.

 

fm8 or DEX + wegetable synth or sampler.
I had one and it was great

 

VS

Hmmm, perhaps if I could find a list of what's in the ROM Samples, preferably where I can hear them on their own, I could rig something up in Bitwig.

 

dexed - FM Plugin Synth is free and excellent. And is 32 and 64 bit, for PC and Mac.

 

Just thought I'd put this here

 

Well, SY77 it's not just an FM machine, it has sample playback too.

Moreover you can use waveform samples to modulate carrier operators, so it's a bit more complex than DEX or similar, though many vsts today can be much more sophisticated than the SY series.

I can assure that, I'm owner of a packed and stocked SY99.

 

If you are looking for more advanced (hybrid type) FM (PM)-synth, try: Rob papen Blue, Big tick Rhino, IL Sytrus, NI FM8, Linplug Octopus, Arturia DX7 (it has a lot of stuff in the menus not found in the original, so it is comparable to more advanced than DX7 Yamaha synths), Falcon, Synthmaster.
If you are looking for "bread and butter" rompler type sounds - Omnisphere (mainly for synths, mostly ambient and new age sounds), Halion - whatever the last version is, Falcon, Nexus, Zebra2 (if you are willing to get 3rd party packs for it), Kontakt/East West or whatever, maybe Tone2 Electra too.

 

I actually have Bazille (currently really focused on learning this synth) and Arturia's DX7, recently trashed FM8, just never got along with it, but neither of these can do what an SY77/TG77/SY99 can do. That is combining and or, as orbitbooster pointed out, use waveform samples to modulate carrier operators. Do either of you know of a VST that can do this?

I see Falcon can do crap ton of stuff (a lot of which I can do in Bitwig, using it's modulators/sampler/FM/PM/PD synths), I'm not sure it can use waveform samples to modulate carrier operators though. How does that work anyways?

I'm actually looking to get close to what one of these Yamaha synths sound like without actually buying a used one, If I could avoid it. It's that old school Yamaha digital sound that I'm after.

 

Speaking of FM, saw this funky looking thing today.

 

This will lead to unmusical sounds most of the time (too complex spectrum as result), because Yamaha and most "FM" vst synths are PM (phase modulation), not real FM...
I think that all these can import samples or short cycle waveforms and use FM/PM between them: Sytrus , Octopus , Rhino, Serum (but is somewhat primitive), Nemesis, maybe Blue (it has (multi)sampled waveforms, but I'm not sure, if you can import your own).
Check the pdf manuals...
What these can't do is the convolution synthesis or whatever it is of old Yamaha synths. (Spitfire have some kind of multi-convolution synth or sampler.) In general, you can use convolution processor and import weird samples for "convolution timbres."

 

I'll keep looking into it. You've been very helpful. Thanks, 23322332.

 

Yet another :

 

I got a hold of a bunch of Yamaha SY-77 Rom Waveforms ripped from some cards and the unit. Seriously, what does that engine do to make use of these? Take a Trumpet sound for example, there's 4 samples, B0, C3, B3 11 cents, and D#4 -11 cents, at about (best guess) 16 Bit 32000 kHz. Needless to say, these aren't going to go very far across the keys in a sampler. It's possible I extracted them at the wrong sample rate but still, 4 short samples. Now, I've never actually heard just a Trumpet preset on the SY-77, but I have heard them layered in other sounds.

What kind of witchcraft does that engine do?

 

Last edited: Dec 14, 2018

No witchcraft there, you've already found the secret: Layering
The four trumpet samples would indeed be spread over the whole keyboard and because that alone would sound awful, they had to mix enough FM sound with it to make it sound acceptable.
That's probably the most "honest" way of describing it

 

Honestly, it's hard to imagine how that would add "realism", or turn out sounding like it does.

I've been on the hunt to find a video where someone makes a patch using both the FM engine and the AWM2 sampler voices from scratch but I can't find one yet. Youtube is filled with people playing presets, trying to make it sound analog, using only the FM engine, or modifying existing presets so I never get to see/hear the two separate come together.

 

...and not to forget the Wavestation, one of my favourites on iOS

 

So if I make an FM Trumpet and have the crappy 4 samples spread across the keyboard sounding like assholes after taco night at a cheap restaurant layered underneath (perhaps some filtering/FX, ect) it will actually make the FM Trumpets sound a bit more realistic?

 

Basically, yes. And be prepared to spend hours to find the best FM parameters. The point is to find an FM sound that sounds somewhat like the sustain phase of a trumpet and matches the pcm samples well at the same time.
I've done this for too long, today I would rather use a synth with a wavetable or additive oscillator and just grab the sustain waveforms from real trumpet samples (or use the samples themselves of course).