Hi guys!
First let me say if you want to call me a troll, OK let's delete this thread now but if not, let's share the most important thing that a producer needs it. Yes, a workflow.

Please suppose you want to start from the scratch without previously got inspired by another song. BTW, I am not talking about the arrangement. My main purpose is getting the most successful workflow for any genre.

1- Are you doing your tracks respecting a specific workflow? I mean you know you should start from the point A and finish in the point Z?

2- Which element is your most favorite one as the starting point? 1-Bass 2-Melody 3-Chord or 4-Drums? Which of these ones causes you to get inspired more for the next steps of you production?

3- OK, every genre has its own characteristics but could you apply your own workflow to all of them and expect the final result to be OK?

4- Do you hate some genres because you don't like them or because you're not able to produce them with your workflow?

And anything related to the workflows.

Thank so much my fellows.

 

1- Y & Y
2- 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 & the sum of all
3- Y
4- N

 

PPl will say there's no one way to do it and you have to find your own way.

But, in my vast experience of 2 months I've noticed a few things:
1) You need inspiration to compose something (or you can be a hack).

2) You need to understand your media you're working in (so for me, I'm going thru Music Theory. I'm up to Jazzy chords but I flame out so far with the chord progressions but I'm still new.)
If you're doing EDM, for the most part you can get away with not knowing wtf you're doing music theory wise for a while. (I quote a guy that I'm watching on Music Theory now)
But after a while, if you want to make a little bit better sounding music, and not do the 1,000 monkeys typing randomly on typewriters creating a masterpiece, learn music theory. So far, it doesn't seem that bad.

As you compose the same genre, and you listen to everything ever written in that genre, you will hear a lot more of what is making up that type of music. It's like your blind and you progressively see more and more, and each time you go FK, how did I not hear that before!?

3) You need to know your equipment. Today I learned wtf an 808 was. It was a Roland drum machine that musicians used before DAWs and stuff to make demos or save time in studio having stuff for the ppl to hear such that it saved time...to me, it sounds like shit. But, if you only have a car to get you where you want to go, you have to learn how to drive, so you have to know how DAWs work and your specific DAW works. Then the 1,000 plugins, but not really, just the most important things like compression, eq, adding saturation (making the perfect digital sound fk'd up so the way our ears are trained with crap analogue, adding back distortion in this way sounds good), reverb and delay. Then faux mixing, cause without very expensive hardware we can only come close, which includes serial compressors/limiters, stereo eq/widening, and the final polishing of the turd. In fact, all the producers I have watched have specific FX chains they preset.

4) You have to not care that you suck. You have to practice and experiment until you don't sound so bad other ppl request that you die because it's killing them to listen. (I find headphones awesome with this, cause when I was practicing classical guitar, ppl DID say, Jeff, we may have to kill you...but I played guitar at work all day...) No matter the personal genetic endowment, everyone has to practice to get good at their craft, just some ppl go further, but no one goes anywhere without practice.

SO, once you have these things become transparent to you: Your media, your machines and your method...you can consider your workflow. Until you get into flow and do things without thinking about it, talking about it seems to mean to me, you have to learn your stuff more.

I agree I would like an encyclopedia of how ppl work, but without a mentor willing to share, the hard won things they found that work for them, tend to not be shared. I know, I've asked before. I also know, having such an encyclopedia will not make you the person you emulate for 2 reasons: 1) It's always your interpretation/limitation of their method; 2) You will find you're own method that picks and chooses from all that you were taught, it's just the way it was for me, over and over. No matter the training, I was my version of everything I was shown, no way around it.

But, mastery is generalizable, and I've mastered other things, master debating, for example...until you've internalized your craft, meta-commenting or meta-analysis like workflows won't help and/or it won't be shared like I've said, either because it's hard fought for and won, or in flow, ppl don't really know htf they did it.

 

1. Yes to a degree, but otherwise it's song specific regardless of genre.
2. That's a limiting point of view. i start with whatever instrument i hear first, write a a basic arrangement, then do drums if the drums/percussion was not the first thing i heard. Basically i get percussion going as quickly as possible.
3. Yes, All songs are simply harmony, melody and rhythm. Which, is genre independent.
4. Sure there are genres I despise, but that doesn't stop me from absorbing those sounds as part of my music vocabulary. Plus production workflow has nothing to do with genre, per se. It's more related to the tools being used.

The bottom line is, workflow is a personal thing that is only honed in by actually working on and finishing tracks.
Because, no one else has the exact same tools you're using including your own ears and brain. Besides, even if you had your workflow down, it would change the moment you added new equipment or moved to different music facility.

So basically, the only way you could figure your own workflow is to make your work flow.

 

It's a bit tricky. Don't let your workflow define you, don't fall in a creative routine or creativity is dead.
There is also general guidelines regarding to genre. There are genre where melodies aren't front and center, where harmony isn't important, others it's the opposite etc, so it's good to focus on what stands out in the genre you're exploring.
But it is very important indeed to have method, which will sometimes give direction to your work. I don't believe there is a "universal" one though, applicable to any one.
It's a balance between doing things in a way that makes you tick creatively and allows you to spit things out and the necessity of the genre you're choosing which you should always pay attention to. People listen to a genre because they like the typical aspects of this genre, it's good to respect that.
And I hate some genres because I hate them, my workflow doesn't come into the consideration of my taste, those are two different things (for producing if I don't like it's obviously a no go, for mixing I don't care, no need to like to work).
I get my inspiration with sonic textures, it suggests me directions. I often start beat with sound designing.
That's a good question @foster911 by the way. I'm curious to read others answers as well.

 

Last edited: May 19, 2016

1: As I use hardware sequencers, my workflow does follow a set pattern. This works for me, so I don't really deviate from it.

2: I will always start with the kick, as this gives me my timing. The sequencers do have click counters but the sound does my head in and puts me off. I programme these in to whatever time signature I'm going to use. Next, I'll put in the bassline. This I usually programme in too. I'll use a very simple sound and the tweak it afterwards while the kick is playing. Then I'll programme in the hats. The hats a quite a dominant part of my own style. Although not complex or changing, they do provide another rhythm. After that it depends on my mood at the time. Nothing else is programmed in or quantized. It maybe percussion elements or lead elements. Sorry I generally don't use the terms melodies, chords, or progressions. I know what the are, I just think of them as elements, and how those elements makes another rhythm.

3: On the dance genres, yes. On the others maybe, but it would be more difficult.

4: I don't really hate any genre of music, although I will avoid ones that give me a headache, or make want to physically vomit in my mouth.

My workflow works for me because I'm rhythm centred and so is my music.

 

1- y
2- As a Trance producer, 50% of the time is the melody... but sometimes happens to be the bass, harmony or even the drums
3- Sure
4- If it's art, i'm gonna love; if it's not, i'm gonna hate... simple

 

Last edited: May 19, 2016

Think you gotta do what's right for yourself Foster. Only you can decide.

Sure people design a workflow to suit their needs but its all subjective.
Of course there a huge difference between writing & composing and mixing and mastering etc.
So setting up all depends on firstly what you are doing i.e writing/recording or a mix mastering session etc .
Like with most things there is no universal way but sure some approaches will work better than others.

EDM a form of music like any other and whilst certain elements will be different the same basic rules will apply regardless of genre.
Everyone has their own preferred way.

A skilled engineer for example will be able to adapt easily from genre to genre.

Again it's all practise, application, learning from mistakes and more practise.

I think if that applies then your in the wrong business

Sure u may have a preferred genre but to "hate or not like" them because you can't produce them is a little short sighted.

At the end of the day your then simply hating something based on the fact that you find it challenging or cannot adapt etc.

My advice would be work most on the genres you don't like and find challenging because in the long run you will learn a lot more and have many more tricks etc at your disposal that will only help you even more in you're preferred genre.

Takes practise Good luck

 

1 - Yep, depends on the idea I'm working out. Usually da beats' first then some chords or some bass. (EDM) I have lots of sketches on different daws' (LPX, Live) that I can reach for so I never quite start with a blank page. Rarely....
2 - Beats are usually boring, especially in the beginning of the build. I love working on a good bassline and making it fit the thing I'm working on. Getting it to really 'groove' with whats there. But its the whole proccess that inspires me. If it doesn't, I go read, or take a walk, work out.
3 - Resounding yes. 'been doin this for over 30 years so I know my bread and butter. I've got a lot to pull from and I've no problem making quick, on-the-spot decissions. That's what producing at my level is about. I don't expect anything, I work hard and long to get serious results.
4 - Hatings' a strong word. Dislike, yeah but not because I can't make or create it. 'cause if I can't I'll stop the presses and work until I do regardles if I like it or not, so. All genres are interesting to me in some way. I have preferences, yes, but hey; bring it on!
Workflows should be everchanging, not in a drastic way but in a learning manner. Else you'd be doing the same thing over and over and over....

 

The electronic dance genres as we know them probably wouldn't exist if it wasn't for this machine! It kicked off House, Techno, Hip Hop and Electro. I'll post this again. I seriously suggest you watch it. Its only 3 mins and take note of the artists that have used it.

 

Last edited: May 19, 2016

Thanks so much! I really loved the way you're doing your job.

At this point, Let's be a bit practical. I created this simple melody in the key of Dmaj (or any mode you call it). No bad but I really beg you please to show us how you decorate it with anything you like (I considered the Tempo=110 or 55). Could you please make at least 16 bar loop with it?

You can use the chords A6, A7sus4, A6, Em9, B7sus4, A7add11, Asus4 as the accompaniment with it.

Btw, do you believe in the modulation (key changing) for expanding the melody or the lead? For below one, I tried to do that but melody's sweetness really got affected (bad).

I know there are million ways to do that but creating different loops with it would be educationally so useful for all of us.

I also suggest to do more of these collaborations together because it is the best way that shows what's going on in our head.

Thanks again!

 

Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2016

Ha ha. What a coincidence!
Take a look at the telepathy:



Workflow Foundations
or
http://edmprod.com/blog/
I can not download it. Could you please upload it somewhere?
Thanks!

 

Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2016

I think it's best to differentiate between the act of creating the music and producing/engineering it. I know most people produce to some extent as they go these days if they are ITB and producing electronic music. In my opinion at least, it's a fine line between having everything organised so there's no problem getting your creativity down when it strikes and being so regimented in your approach that there's no room for happy accidents or doing something differently that makes your track sound original/unique.


Looking at it from a strictly engineering angle it's best to be as organised and on top of things as possible. Yes you can be as creative as you want in the production choices you make, but there are some tasks and considerations in the engineering of the track that always have to be addressed dispassionately and practically scientifically if you want it to sound as good as you can possibly make it.


I think the ideal combination in the creation/production of music are collaborative efforts where there's different types of people making the track with differing skills and personalities. You want a flamboyant extrovert to take chances and do the unexpected and an introverted 'egg head' in a white coat to ensure the madcap's ideas translate sonically.

 

I wish the internet had been around when i had trouble with my school homework.

 

(BAD)
I have noticed 2 things that really make a big obstacle for me.
1- Creating totally melodic based tracks or pieces.
2- Starting the track from the melody.
Maybe this does not happen to you but when I most want to act melodically without considering the harmony, I less get a good track.


(GOOD)
There are also other approaches:
1- Starting from the Bass.
2- Starting from the Harmony. --------------> Specially this one.
3- Starting from the Drums.
These ones work best for me and I can be more creative. And also melody creation at the end of the production as the completing element yields a better result.

 

Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2016

Year 2055: This forum is populated by AIs, cyborgs and Foster911

@foster911 "Hi guys, at what level you mix on the channels: -12 dB FS then sum everything on the master bus, or -3 dB FS each channel then send groups of instruments to submixes then subsequently sum these submixes on the master bus? I'm also happy to let you know that I've just finished the second third of my sitxh track in A8sus13 minor. As always, your input will be useless appreciated."

 

Why do you look from that angle? The forum is over-loaded by the softwares, plugins, installation problems, etc. Why don't you complain about them?

At least mine is directly related to the music production. Which one is worthy? 1- Talking about the problems of composing 2- Polluting the forum with (what's the new from 2.32 to 2.33 version). Please be an impartial arbitrator!

Do you know why the "Our music" is almost deserted? Because most people have the common problems like me but usually dissemble them and do not let to be revealed by asking other people's help.



I'm always searching for the practical systematic methods of composing.
1-Listening to the musics and acting Improvisationly for creating small pieces.
2- Acting systematically for placing the small pieces together.
The first one does not need more energy but the second one is really the energy-consuming part and it shows how much music you know.

 

Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2016

You can't change the melody of the lead outside changing the notes themselves. What you are doing is simply Harmony which is a huge topic in itself. As for expanding a lead well it doesn't have to be harmony but can also encompass many other things i.e expand it by double tracking it and and adding some phase differnece. Detune it a few cents ( Form of harmony). Reverse the lead i.e Jimi style.Delay the onset of the same lead by a few miliseconds and pan. There a million other things to do than concentrate on just Harmonizing and modal theory etc. Play the lead through a lexicon and again mess with the timing. Loads more to do than simply harmonize a simple melody

 

Thanks lean for your valuable advice.
As you know the ways you suggested are at the later phases of the production. They're more doing with the sounds themselves not more with the composition itself.

 

Yeah I take your point.

If you want to think of creational compositional aspects then there always other ways to go than the mainly established Modal methods i.e take a scale run completley invert and double track, may sound like shit but could sound great. Simpy playing the same melody with a different instrument i.e Guitar & Oboe through a harmoniser is in itself a "form of compositon" that adds huge depth.
Take a scale play it picked and then play it slurred/legato/tapped over the top and octave above . That's still a compositional aspect.
Experiment with time structures if you feeling really adventurous i.e descend in groups of fives whilst ascending in groups of three or whatever.

Again could sound terrible but could sound immense. Odd time signatures a great thing to experiment with and really help with your creativity and ability to improvise.

If you want to be modal play a minor chord and play your lead/melody major fifth instead of a 2nd. Loads of differnet stuff to try

They all still compositional elements