Hi. I start this thread because i want to show and gather some thoughts about using your brain more efficiently. Why could it be important for you? Lets get it clear. A lot of people don't finish their songs because they spend more time with steps that aren't fitting a productive workflow.
You! Yes you! Don't you feel adressed? A little bit testing the new plugin here, a little bit mixing there, a little bit experimenting here and a little bit ... uhm ... Oh, a nice cat video on youtube? - So I invite all of you other (productive) guys to share your secrets.

Ok. Here are some of my thoughts: Beside making music I'am writing stories of all types. And in the process of writing you quickly can run into trouble if you don't follow some rules or a certain workflow. Maybe some of you remember how it was to write an assey at school: You had an idea. Wanted to write it down, but didn't find the right words and grammar. Total blockade! Ending in losing the idea or writing it as a compromise only.

The Problem is your brain. While your right half is full of fantasy, patterns and spontanious thoughts, your left half always looks for logic and rules. And some people tend to be more left or right oriented (not political!). So for example: a story needs your fantasy for the plot but also needs logic to use words and sentences in a prescriped way. How to solve this problem? Yes! Just separate the work for your brain so the left side doesn't disturb the right one and vice versa.

Some authors write their stories first without any grammar or form. Its called freewriting. Just the creativity of the right brainhalf should flow in the first process. Similar to a brainstorming every aspect needs to get fast and figuratively transfered on the sheet so you can easy recreate it later in your imagination. After this process, you end up with a simplistic idea of the WHOLE thing but knowing exactly what every scene means and what it needs in more detail.
Then your left brain comes in to run hot. It has the capabillity to bring your skribble in media conformity and finds logical errors. Maybe you have to repeat parts of the second process several times. But at the end you finish your story more quickly and with less frustration. Its also depending what type of thinker you are to see which part is more easy for you. But you wont't get stuck in your workflow.

So how can we translate this to the process of making music? You can't do it 1:1 because logic and creativity are in music not clearly separated. But the princible can help. There is a method of working. I don't remember the name exactly but i think it had something to do with a diamond. You first create a solid base and then grind it (like a diamond) from all sides until you're happy. The formula is: From simple to sophisticated! In our special case of making music its kind of a reversed process from writing a story. You still go from simple to sophisticated but this time also from logic to creativity. (Not creativity to logic!) And it can really help your brain from getting stuck between left and right functionality.

Here is the plan: Along with this method comes at first the mood and the gengre of your song. Then it would be the most important part to make a simple skribble of the WHOLE track. No mixing, no fancy preset searching, no sound optimization, no eq, no compression etc. Let everything alone and just use the simpliest fitting instruments that are needed as a basis of your music style. This could be bass, piano, kick, snare, guitar etc. Then first create placeholders for parts of your song (intro, bridge, verse) "DO IT!", and keep all the focus on filling them with a fitting base of melodies, chords and rhythms. Don't stop until you have finished the WHOLE structure! Keep all your senses away from sound and beauty but straight up to harmony, rhythm, melody. When its done imagine what the scenes need in detail and then work from bottom to top from simple to detailed. Beginn to mix and define space.

This way you are tricking your brain, because it doesn't get stuck in front of a song segment without ideas for the rest of the song. This way it gets a plan of everything and lets you easy get more creative. Because once you learned the structure and basic elements of your song, those facts wandering straight from right brain to left brain and make more room for fantasy and ideas in the right half of your head. If you try this, you will be surprised how free you feel and how spontanious you end up with more complicated rhythms or arrangements. Why? Because your brain gets bored knowing the simple structure of your WHOLE song and wants to refine.

You don't have to work that way. There are many other workflows. But if you have problems keeping your focus on finishing songs you should try it. I for myself use it sometimes. But the most time I compose a song in one row with my guitar (I even don't write it down. I just use my memory. (Yeah, thats sometimes dangerous, because you can lose ideas.)) And of course I also sometimes end up with just one perfect pattern of a song never finishing it because of brain stuck and laziness.

So whats your perfect way to be productive? Song presets or certain workspaces? Special workflows? Time limits? Drugs? Tell us!

 

Don't know what you're talking about. Right half, left half...... My brain is in the permanent peace and quiet and nothing disturbs it.

I don't have any plan neither at the start, middle, nor end. I just create and expect people to like them.

BTW, if you've watched that tutorial by Stefanie Potter, forget it. Those methods don't work well in electronic. Jeez, you're a guitarist.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2017

Hi, Elisea!

It sound like you've experienced writers block/inefficiency in the past but managed to find a way past it that works for you, thats really great!

I think the workflow you describe is good if you have trouble finishing songs, and as a standard workflow that suits many styles of music.
Working out the structure first and then filling in detail enables you to not go in all directions and loose focus of the original idea. Also separating songwriting from, trying out plugins or patches can be useful advice, especially if you have trouble pulling out and thinking of the big picture.

But I don't agree with you about the left/right side of the brain, as this has been proven a myth. The University of Utah did a large study,
you can read more about it here:
https://www.livescience.com/39373-left-brain-right-brain-myth.html

And here is a quote from the article
"It is not the case that the left hemisphere is associated with logic or reasoning more than the right," Anderson told LiveScience. "Also, creativity is no more processed in the right hemisphere than the left."

But if it helps your workflow to think about it this way, then don't read the article!!!

 

Last edited: Aug 27, 2017

An idea you forget was not worth to be remembered.

 

@Elisea - Your ideas might work for majority of genres where structure is predefined, but what about styles in which you make the structure? It's even bit more challenging as one has to reinvent all on their own, not just melody, bridges and rhythms, but also tempo, instrumentation, key and time signature changes, lyrics, techniques, etc.
It helps to have an idea about the whole song, laid out in DAW, but there are so many elements to consider when working with acoustic instruments that 'doing it later' is not an option.
In those cases, working in a linear fashion with some outlined idea in mind is the best option overall IMHO, only challenge is, you guessed it, keep going.
Keeping distractions to minimum is also recommended.

I find the opposite to be true mostly, especially for 'musical dreams'. In the morning I couldn't fathom one single progression.

 

Last edited: Aug 27, 2017

@Elisea
There's a big secret for having progression in music making and it's taking your mind off "Chord Progression" and putting"Harmonization" behind you.

Unfortunately, the problems highlighted in blue are the biggest misconceptions in the whole western music world that have been aggrandized wrongly by instrumentalists or people analyzing other artists' works to find out their methods like you.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2017

Hi,I did't know that. I read some books years ago and found it pretty fitting to the problem of getting stuck. Maybe this left brain - right brain is bullshit, but I'am sure the problem with the fighting between logic and creativity still exists. If you take a look at the workflow of really well known authors you will find a few who use the separation of certain writing processes. Such as the mentioned freewriting. Others just write it down and go over and over and over and ...

I guess everybody expiriences that in real life. If you write a comment in this forum, you have no problem to express yourself, because you just write what you would say. But if you have to invent a story out of your fantasy, you don't get it down on sheet so easy. So maybe there is a context.

But I have no problem throwing the left/right theory over board. Thanks for your revision.

 

I don't know Stefanie Potter. What did she teach?

So you don't have problems with your brain? Thats great. I hope me too. Working without a plan is okay, but a structure helps or even a template. If you never get stuck writing a song, you probably should't change anything. Maybe this just happens to certain people with a gene for laziness. I don't know.

But I'am happy for your great brain. And you should be proud of it.

 

I wish i could agree. A few times I came home from a journey and had just something in mind. A few minutes with the guitar brings it to live. And you really feel it. But next day the kids get ill, or something unexpected happens. And then ... yeah. Its gone. Not all the notes and harmonies, but the feeling for it. You know what I mean?

However you are right, if you take your great ideas and save it on tape you won't forget them. But if its not worth, it wont help the bad idea if its saved.

 

There are several softwares out now that help you write books and plays; they help you with your "workflow" - whatever workflow means anyway. I think that when you've really figured out what workflow means, you'll solve your problems. The answer is always in the question. Before your post Elisea, I hadn't asked myself why there isn;t any software yet like the ones for writing that help you construct songs; no doubt if you write to some developers, someone might be inspired to create one.

Writer's-block is a myth. In fact everything you know is a myth and only I exist, are we clear on that? OK, we can proceed. Writer's-block happens when you don't want to start writing. No really. Remember what I said and just start writing or designing that thing that you really want to do... or don't you REALLY want to do it? Aha. I was right. You see, take any other situation in your day when you encounter a slight hesitation, e.g. Hmm, shall I make a tea or a coffee? Well, how long does it take you to decide? Coffee or Tea. A sandwich or a KFC. Hmmm, let me see, I have Eater's-block so it might take a while. Does it take as long as when you decide to start creating? Aha again. Think about all this. But not for too long, or your entire days will be block this and that. Well only my music surely. It's the same brain making the same important decisions. All that is happening is that you've decided not to make a start, not to actually create.. for some reason that scares you from starting. You see, writing I walked into the room starts the creative engine, anything and everything starts the process. So just BLOODY START. JUST DO IT. And stop making excuses.

Left-brain, right-brain. Mine both work together, all the time. So do yours. No planning, just get your mouse pointer on a key and keep pressing it. It starts the process. Your brain has to engage. Totally. No planning needed. If it doesn't engage maybe you should take up pottery or painting. Any mood, life in a mess, doesn't matter, if you're musically inclined, your musical brain will smile for you.

Now get on with it!

 

I agree. But I also didn't mean it as a fix way. Just to separate certain work processes. The problem is, you can waste a lot of time looking for sounds or eq or anything else without realizing, that you are painting the walls of a house without roof or stairway. Of course there are genres wich don't allow to just make a beat and a bassline. But then it also helps to think about the best workflow.

If you create music wich doesn't fit the standard structure, it doesn't mean you can't optimize the way you work. Or even better, to optimize the way your work makes more fun or gets finished more creatively. As a musician you have a feeling for structure. And I can tell you, i give nothing on fixed song structures because they can't fit everytime. Sometimes I just create a pattern of music and in the same moment I know what it is and what it needs around. Then i feel if it should start with a dimmed version of the chorus to just smash in or if it needs an intro and a slowly build up. I mean, thats creativity. And thats what sometimes ends in a stuck. Because it happens that you fiddle around to eq or compress things while you should leave it to use your musical imagination. I for myself need to stop me in such cases and to really force myself into building up the structure first.

And what you mean with not "doing it later" is of course right. If you record a clean guitar but the song is a rocksong that needs distortion it doesn't make sense to listen the whole time to the screeching clean sound. You should allways keep the feeling and the pressure up. Thats what i meant with first finding the mood of the song. Yeah its not easy to describe because I'am German.

 

Thats not what i meant. I didn't write about don't getting started. Its about getting stuck in the middle because of a lacking workflow. I also never mentioned writers block in my text because it has nothing to do with it. Its about being efficiently. The problem is not getting focus on the right things on the right time. And I wrote how to maybe avoid it by forcing certain steps first. So please learn to read and understand!

I see you are the super hero! Congratulations! Why do you even answer? I mean, Your post is the same arrogant way that allways messes up threads here on Audiosex. Just bitching without respect or empathy. But okay, you probably have to compensate.

And yeah, of course you have to like what you want to finish, but that doesn't mean you can't trick yourself in finishing things that just make less fun. Writing songs and arranging them makes fun, but sometimes there are pleasures which are overwhelming. Not what you mean. I talk about distraction and inefficient techniques. And it should be clear I'am not talking about a pro producers with timelines who just do assembly-line work (not in the bad way but in the meaning of practice.)

If you have to clean up your room - most of us don't like it - you maybe turn on music to get in a good mood. And maybe you start with the big mess to make quick progress and motivate yourself. Than you vacuum first and do dust after that - because you know it would be wasted time to do it in reverse. And at the and you fold and place your pillows what you really like. Thats your little reward. And THATS a workflow! You know? And it has nothing to do with don't getting started but with making work more fun. And to find a comparison: You also could vacuum first but you maybe would end up with clothing in your vacuum cleaner.

So i have to say Your post was kind of ridiculous because you made assumptions without even understanding what the matter is. But okay. It happens. I guess you hate lazy people who are allways looking for excuses. I guarantee you I'am not one of them. So I read your answer as an insult, but I also assume you were just upset because of your aversion! Whatever.

And forget the left/right brain thing. Helter Skelter did inform me that its maybe bullshit. So I have to excuse me but I read about it several times in serious books. Sorry.

 

I'm with you here, there's no lack of ideas in any halfway creative brain anyway. And every really good idea you believe to have forgotten will just take some months off within your subconsciousness and return to you as a ripened great idea some day.
And what's the problem forgetting a few ideas as long as you still know how to get some.
Imho it's more about caring about the ideas that are with you deliberately atm, partying with them and and doing them justice.

(Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm writing about musical ideas or lovers, both seems to fit...)

 

You can hear her voice in my second post. Writing song about sea, jungle, mountains, weather.

If you refer to my posts and music, nearly 99% of them are related to the structure and also if you read replies to them, you would get how people go mad when they confront with new structures.

Don't worry much about the structure. First of all, make the snippets as many as you can, then the abundance of those snippets next to each other will form your music.

For example listen to this snippet. Create millions of these and join them together and your track is ready:
https://clyp.it/eco1kfwx

Let your brain create anything it likes and don't restrict it. For example I usually make 10 tracks not single 1 in one session because creating coherency between different parts of a track is more complicated. After some time, the coherency a thing that you're searching to make a track will begin to take shape.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Aug 28, 2017

Well, two people found my post 'useful' and one person liked it. It was half tongue-in-cheek, maybe when you're a little more mature you'll get my dry humour! LOOK HERE'S A SMILIE Emojis rule.

 

This could be my fault as I was the first one mentioning writers block. So maybe it was my misinterpretation of your text that led to others misinterpreting. So sorry for that!

I've never experienced writers block, but I think it can be a very real thing. Some very successful people have had it, sometime because of their success. Clearly it is a complex issue and just saying, "hey, just write some stuff!" is probably not going to help.

I have had trouble with finishing songs in the past, but have found some advice that has helped me alot. So here is what works for me anyway, pretty basic stuff;

1. Setting deadlines and keeping them, no matter what, that way I'll be forced to focus on what matters.
2. Having a studio away from home so I won't get interrupted by my kids or spouse.
3. Writing stuff every day to keep things flowing, keeping up my voice, guitar an piano skills.
4. Taking pauses and walking to clear my head.

Anyway, it seems to me different people have different struggles in their creative process. And some have no struggles at all it seems.

 

I don't get your dry humor, @Thankful. (You know, I'am German. We don't laugh. )

Anyway: I'am gone.

I will leave AudioSex as an active member. Not because of you, not because I'am offended, but because it doesn't make fun to participate. For me its like trying to drink tea with chest drumming gorillas. No allegation. Its obviously me who is not fitting in here. (Maybe a bit sensitive.) For several years i was just reading on AS and everything was fine. Now its sometimes frustrating. So why not back to read only?

Again, thats not your fault, its just the feeling of a big mistake. I'am not a native english speaker. So maybe I often don't get the hint of a certain kind of special humor. I mostly understand posts like yours as presumption and just can't comprehend them. And there are many of those. Maybe this is kind of a buddy language or a masculine way to cement the hierarchy of the pack. But for example: Helter Skelter practically just declared half of my post as bullshit. But he did it in a civilized way - what leaded in a civilized answer (or hindsight).
I don't have a problem changing my point of view if someone shows me I'am wrong without bashing. Just look at my response.

Its the problem of AS, that a big gap exists between noobs and pros. Sometimes that creates tension because the pros getting bored or upset reading the "dump" or naive noob questions and comments. But pros don't have to show that they are better by spatting and taunting. They just should show it with their knowledge. And most of them do. I don't know if its already exists, but a noob or beginners section in the forums could avoid such conflicts.
And it seems that a lot of people are stressed out, what leads in harsh reactions and disputs. Maybe I'am one of them. Whatever. I decided to go back to read-mode because its energy-sapping to write here. (My time is precious and I have two kids.) The chance of don't finding the right words and meanings as a non english speaker is high. And that makes me and my posts a risk, mostly leading in the wrong direction or getting misinterpreted.

So I wish all of you good luck. And don't forget: Its the sound what makes the music!

Btw. where to delete account?

 

@Elisea please don't leave. I promise to raise one of your kids in fostery way.

 

@Elisea it would be a shame if you left over this topic, there are plenty of people that appreciate your post and views

 

@Elisea : No need for account deletion. As we say: Eats no bread anyway

I totally agree with your thoughts about the gap between pros and noobs. But I would add, there is a gap between polite and not.
So, one asks his/herself if R/W at AZ is worth the time and effort (as a non native english writer). I'm not sure about the answer.

But I'm quite sure, the rest of the internet forums are worse. So, long ago, I decided not to participate in any forum. No facebook, no whatsapp... My spare time is too precious to me. AS is the only exception of this rule.

Here I could learn from others an met some nice people. And, sometimes, I was able to help someone (I'm neither a pro, nor an artist. Just hobbyist).

But in the last days or weeks, discussions tend to run out of control. Your picture of 'chest drumming gorillas' is quite understandable to me. And the only thing, what was done by admins, was deleting posts. Not only those posts violating the rules but thoughtful posts as well. Not just closing threads or contacting members timely.

So @statik , I think this topic wasn't the only problem Elisea found at AZ, that makes her leave.

 

Last edited: Aug 29, 2017