Sorry for not posting this link, too: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/762183-my-windows-7-vs-windows-8-dawbench-results.html Even though it is Gearslutz and I don't like the site nor people there too much , his results pretty much reflect my results, although I haven't seen such drastic difference. More like 10% or so. I also tested W7 and W8 on different machines, one AMD FX, Intel i7 and one with AMD A10 APU because I like to know how fast these things are. I always test my workstations for stability and jump on the opportunity to benchmark them, too, with my own set of tests. *yes*

The thing is, loading a plugin faster have absolutely nothing to do with DAW and OS performance, working more efficiently, or using more plugins simultaneously. It's an old trick used in Linux for "centuries" called "preload", or simply "buffering programs into memory". I'm simply not impressed with W8 performance, nor I think W9 will change that, but we'll see. And I'm not talking about the freaking start menu about which I couldn't care less, nor looks and fancy stuff, or anything but pure DAW/OS performance. If I was impressed, I would tell you so. I'm always for squeezing out more performance from my DAW and I really don't care which Windows does it. So far the best and fastest is still Windows XP. <-- period.

I'm also not telling anyone to use or not to use anything. I'm just stating facts. You want to use W9 for audio? Why not? It's not my business what you use, unless you're my client.

Consider this: does anybody here assemble a couple of audio workstations monthly and have an opportunity to benchmark "stuff"? Any hands? I didn't think so. Well, I do that and I love benchmarking "stuff"! *yes* When any new Windows becomes a new audio king of performance, you will know it and hear it from me.

I would just like people to be honest for once and not automatically equate newer with better. People also like to justify their purchase with dishonest claims. I am a sceptic about new Windows for a reason. Newer computers are faster, but Windows are *currently* not, or rather - it depends on the purpose. Booting and loading programs is faster due to caching tricks MS implements, but that doesn't mean that your DAW is working any better when it comes to pure raw performance, number of usable plugins and shortest usable latency. *yes*

Yes, I am a Microsoft and Apple hater. You know that. But for other, ethical reasons, as I'm against monopolies and proprietary/closed hardware and software to some extent, because they are simply not good for our society, and they lead us into a disaster. Everybody should care about that, but they don't. It's like the climate change - you'll realise the disaster when it comes to your doorstep and it becomes too late to do anything. However, I'm doing the best I can to open people's eyes about what they're doing and where it leads us to.

Cheers !

 

I don't know how relevant these tests are as long as i noticed an improvement on my practical situations since i changed from Win7 to Win8. You know that real practical situations are more important than the tests themselves as long as you just notice that a certain thing works better than the other thing. Not only my Nebula instances opens faster, but also my CPU spikes are more stable on Win8 than Win7 when i go heavy on the projects. How can you explain this regarding the CPU? Ok, i understood the fact about "pre-load" thing, but what about CPU stability?

Of course WinXP will win against Win7 or 8, BUT, that will happen ONLY on TRASHY computers, with 512mb or RAM because they can't handle newer OSes as nicely, so yeah, XP is
still a king for Wreck-puters.

Now let's take it rationally, how do you expect a newer O.S. which packs MORE features to be LESS resource demanding? XP is just like a "bald head", there's no "hair" on it so it fits a lot of hats (computers, both weak and powerful). But how you're supposed to enhance a newer version of O.S. trying to make it as usability-appealing and eye-candy as possible but without making it resource demanding? That's impossible. Even the RAM got cheaper and cheaper and anyone can afford a better computer to run the newest OSes.

I worked so much with Nebula instances on Win7 that i almost memorized its loading time and once i swapped to Win8, i just felt the quickness/difference instantly. I told you, i don't try to make anyone believe me, but they should test it PRACTICALLY for themselves. Also that GS "Polyphony" test is kinda strange for me, because on the contrary, on hypersaws synths my CPU meter in StudioOne(win8) looks more stable and neat than on win7. How can you explain that? I produce/experiment sounds/mix DAILY and i've got very used to my tools i'm working with. Too bad i can't play with this workstation due to my tons of projects i have lately (i mean, to install different OSes natively with no virtualbox for test purposes and demonstrate you the actual CPU stability as a comparision Between WIn7 and Win8 on my computer).

So, "The thing is, loading a plugin faster have absolutely nothing to do with DAW and OS performance, working more efficiently, or using more plugins simultaneously."
I DO work more efficiently with Nebula since i swapped to Win8. This is my personal opinion based on a practical situation.

I truly respect your job and your experience, but that can't give you an absolutely right opinion leaving others with their mouth shut. Being right is just a matter of personal practical witnessing. You can say how bad Win8 is just because that's how you faced it in your practical situations. But there's another guy (me) who steps in with his own opinion based on his practical situations. I don't try to make anyone believe i'm the most correct guy right here, i just try to express my honest opinion regarding difference between OSes which i noticed in my practical situations, that's all. I can't use your words to lie myself that Win8 is bad when on the contrary, it actually works better than my ex-OSes for me.

Yes it does, as i already said, it works a lot better for me than the ex-OSes i used before and if i would agree with your opinion, that would mean to lie myself *yes* , i just can't do that.

I don't think anyone will die just because they accepted to move on and grant access for new things in their life. There's a quote... "You rather accept the change, or else you're left behind". I know how hard is to accept the change... i faced this thing on my own skin when i had to lose important people from my life, but when it comes about OSes, i think it's a bit more easier to accept the change. (as long as your computer supports it, of course)

 

Nice answer, Evorax. I really appreciate your points and it's hard to dispute them. One can tell when somebody is posting from the heart. ;) I'm like that, too. One thing especially struck me - you have to keep in mind that I only benchmark W8 for thrills. There's no practical usage at all. I install the OS, I test, I delete the thing. Practical usage, as you eloquently put it, is the main thing. So... I don't know. You really could have a good point there, especially if you used the same computer to test both W7 and W8. Differences aren't that big in efficiency, especially between W7 and W8, and that tells me that many users, especially with high end computers will never realise they can run 20-30 plugins less than in W7, or 100 plugins less than in XP. However, I am really "fiddly" about these things. Most users are not. The really interesting thing you brought out is about CPU spikes. That could be related to lots of things. That's why I always use a DPC latency checker to trace the culprit. If you don't have it already, I can only highly suggest you to download it and keep handy for when you do get spikes and crackles in audio due to excessive CPU usage. My experience has always been - kill speedstep/cool and quiet, and kill the network, especially wi-fi, and you're going to be just fine. DPC stays nicely flat and low without these on any of the Windows OSes. But I have to point out that I really lack practical experience with W8 because I never felt compelled to give it a more thorough try. Maybe I'll do that with Windows 9. But you see, I only see Windows as an audio workstation now. Nothing else. I use Linux for everything else and I'm reborn and really happy with that.

Regarding change, I accepted the biggest change there could be: using Linux instead of Windows, my friend. I'm not opposed to change, I'm opposed to mess, unnecessary bloat, code inefficiency, and monopoly, as I said. Monopoly will make us all slaves to a 2.5 corporations in the end, you know? Microsoft lost me on that long time ago when I figured their practices. That was before Windows XP, actually, but when they released XP that just affirmed my convictions about MS and their programming and *other* practices [bribe, assimilate, kill]. Even at that time I got really tempted to go Linux because of that realisation, however Linux wasn't nearly as ready for me at the time as it is now, more than 10 years later. Anyway, Linux aside, Microsoft programmers are just poor excuse for programmers. I don't know why that's like that, but it is. They're paid well, but all they produce is bloated crap. At that time there was BeOS and I so wanted BeOS to succeed for professional audio use at least, but it didn't, and interestingly Microsoft has a lot to do with killing BeOS. They kill off with malicious practices everyone who tries to make something better than Windows. But they cannot kill Linux, because Linux doesn't depend on money. All they can do is badmouth it, and they do that. There are MS drones everywhere on Linux forums to badmouth it and make sure that all old prejudices of people towards Linux are kept safe. "linux is only for geeks", "You have so many distros and desktop environments, that is no good [it is]" etc. etc...

Yeah, nice post and reply, man! It shows that you really gave it time to write it. That has to be appreciated. I usually like to write a lot, too...

As I said, I don't care what people use. The hardest thing to persuade people into is to use another OS or change their diet. ;) People are slaves to the media like Fox and various Fox's spawns around the globe.... Just keep using what you think is best for you. However, my tests are my DAW tests and I trust them, a lot. I don't spread them in the forums, though, because I like to keep it all my little "trade" secret. This is my first, because from my perspective I want to help people not to fall for MS FUD. All my clients are satisfied with how their workstations perform and how stable they are. That's the main thing for me. Some are still on XP and some are on W7x64. No Internet and network cards. I install them Linux Debian for Internet and "office" crap and playing music and videos etc. - everyday usage. Someone has to point them into the right direction [left?] because they cannot think for themselves as they're mostly just out of everything that happens in reality. They live in clouds, made by public media propaganda. What they say must be true, eh? I trust no public media at all. Just my own human logic and empathy. Sad, that. We should trust the public media, IMO.

All that being said, I actually can't wait to test Windows 9. It's always exciting to test new "stuff".

Cheers !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzlc-KsIUIU

 

Linux is not ready for the mainstream market. It's a great OS but there still remains a high learning curve that most people don't want to deal with. Open source is great but the main flaw is that these types of projects simply don't have the resources a large corporation will have to develop an operating system. Linux serves a purpose but it will be a long time before you start to see the everyday user opt to use it instead of Windows.

And another feature that wasn't mentioned here besides Cortana Microsoft's personal voice assistant, there will also be a notification center and Metro apps will now run in windowed mode on the desktop.

 

If I installed it for you, Catalyst, there would be no learning curve at all. It's the same as Windows, just better. Stop reiterating the same old bs about Linux. It's easy to install and it just works. Tell me you've tried it lately? Most people just keep to the same old same old... Linux is for geeks etc. If the people I know that work with Linux can do it, anybody can. It's been ready for the mainstream for a good while. It's just that MS fans and shrills spread the same old "Linux is for geeks". It is not. Geeks do have to maintain it, though, that's true. But maintenance with Linux is a completely different thing, as in - it's almost non-existent. I used to get calls about "Windows doing this or that" all the time. Now, not so much. In Linux, you can't fuck up your system that easily when you're a newbie. Especially if you're not given the root password.

 

Come on SineWave you know that Linux has a much greater learning curve than Windows, if it didn't people would be using that instead. I use linux distros on LiveCDs all the time. *yes*

 

Also a lot of developers don't have software/driver support for Linux so this is also another point about why it's not ready for mainstream. But for web browsing, playing music and stuff i think it's enough. Another thing i didn't understand is why most of the Linux users i know always keeps a "CMD"-like window open and write commands in it. I think that was the first aspect which made me say "damn, it should be difficult to tame this O.S. "

 

What you mentioned about Linux is all the same old prejudices I mentioned that people tend to pass around because they "heard so". I tell you, Linux can absolutely survive these days without going into the terminal. However, most of the people choose to do so because it's "geeky" and that makes them feel cool. There's always two sides to every coin. Linux people also tend to have this "conky" program run on their desktops and show them CPU, RAM and crap like that. Why, I wouldn't know. I don't need stuff like that.

I'm one of those that like terminal, but I also like it in Windows,too, because you can do some stuff more easily with it there too. I used to boot Windows into the "CMD" and start the DAW from the command line, thus saving it from the memory footprint of the Explorer shell, a lot of it. It might seem too extremist to you to do that, but once you experience the DAW working without the burden of the Windows shell, you get to appreciate it and your views change. It works rather smoothly. It can be done with W7, but I wouldn't know about W8.

I tell you, I'm just a performance and efficiency freak when it comes to DAWs. *yes* OS and how old it is is the least of my worries. And I'm not susceptible to any propaganda, especially from MS. What they say is what they have to say, not what it really is. I've been hearing the same "more productive, faster and it'll suck your cock if you just give us your money" stories from MS since W2K, and followed by happy, smiley photos of some grandpa and grandma with their smiling grandchildren, then some cool guy and a chick with the tits. It is really funny when you see the same sentence and similar photos while you're installing XP and W7. It's actually too funny, and also really sad. They must take Windows users for completely brainless zombies or something...

Gosh, these discussions here at AudioSex are so much more normal than on any other forum. You people are just so normal. Just like on Linux forums btw. like Phoronix http://www.phoronix.com which is one of the best info websites if you're into Linux. I really enjoy writing anything here and helping people, or sometimes provoking you to try thinking differently...

p.s. I've just visited KVR, what a load of boring crap... you can't even talk normally, everybody's pretending ffs... *yes*

 

Thanks for the info regarding the other forums.

Well, back to Linux, i used Team Viewer to teach a dude how to make some stuff in his DAW (in Win7) regarding production but he connected me on his other computer which had Linux installed. Once the stream started, he had that "Terminal" on the Desktop all the time, also writing commands (i guess to show off, as you said, acting like a geek).
Well, the bad thing about Linux IMO is the fact that most of the software you love has no support for it. What if i have a 600E Cubase 7.5? Should i throw it to the bin because i wanted to stick with Linux?
I don't mind it for music/movies playing, web browsing and other "casual" stuff, but for pro stuff, i don't trust it. I won't contradict you regarding MS, because this guy (who use both Win & Linux) told me that MS even limit the drivers just so they can support and justify the hardware/software market. He told me our computers can work faster than it does, but they (also Apple as well) might've added a secret limitation in the drivers to be easier for them to come up with a "newer & better" version of their O.S.es or Hardware, so they can justify easier how good their newer version is when it's actually just a partial driver unlocking under a fresh GUI with a few extra features and programs added, calling it the "New" O.S.
I don't know how true this shit is, but i'm curious to know what do you think about it?

 

For someone who just started using computer everything is in learning,for someone that know how to use Windows,Linux is piece of cake,take Linux Mint for example,if that is not mainstream OS,than what it is,I am confident that if many people knew about it before buying computer with OEM OS they would get it instead and learn it even faster than Windows,have less troubles about getting drivers and no much worries about viruses and other fun stuff.Majority of people use Windows because they are forced to it by chance,than they learn it and it is hard to switch or no big reason for it,ship them Linux instead and see if they are going to switch to Windows,I really do not think they would.But it is not there yet for pro audio,that is not up to Linux,it is up to developers and hardware makers,if they do not want to support it,it will stay like that for pro audio,but Linux is ready any time they are,it is good even now for audio,nothing fancy,but it is free. so it is not there for pro market,but it is for consumer market.

Agree with you SineWave.

Evorax:"Also a lot of developers don't have software/driver support for Linux so this is also another point about why it's not ready for mainstream."
Only for pro market which is not big,on other hand,if you are on Linux,you do not use Winamp,but Clementine and you do not use BSPlayer but VLC and so on,there are almost all browsers supported and many more applications and everything concerned with computer hardware is working immediately,only pro hardware and software is not supported,but mainstream market is not pro market,consumer market is and for that Linux is there and ready.

You can not teach old dog new tricks,but Linux is ready for mainstream,but new dogs just listen old dogs scary stories instead of trying it and having actual chance to have it instantly,so it is same old story for some time now,it is time for a change,Linux is ready,ship him with new computers and than leave a choice for a consumer to change if he wants,than watch how he is not mainstream or only for geeks.

 

Mainstream doesn't mean particulary just CONSUMER usage. Mainstream is only when that particular O.S. is able to handle all the tasks, regarding if they're PRO or Consumer.
You can't just say "hey, it's mainstream for consumer but not mainstream enough for pros."
Even if PROs are just the minority, yet all the OSes (except Linux) can handle professional audio/video tasks.
I understood that developers refuse to support Linux, and that's also another reason why Linux is NOT ready for mainstream.
Mainstream should represent best of all worlds, like Win & OSX do, not just to stick to consumer needs. Unsupported O.S.es have limited purposes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream

Today almost every household have computer and that people are majority and represent mainstream,for their needs Linux is there,they do not need exact same famous software that is in most cases again for pro power users,because they have free open source equivalent of it for their own decent needs in worst case scenario,that is what I am talking about,minority of pro users have their own tools and needs and for them Linux will never be there if Linux not support every of their tool better than their present OS,for plenty Windows and OS X are not there now,it is always haunting for more,faster and you name it,so that users are special bread that are minority.I guess it is hard to drop your own preferences and see that others are not using computer for the same reason as you and that you are in big minority of power pro users,but whatever,no point in discussing how you see reality,that is your thing and Linux clearly is not your thing to start with.

 

It's not about how do i see the reality. I told you, for consumer things like web-browsing, playing music and stuff, Linux is enough. You can't imply "majority" fact just for the people who use it, but majority can also represent "the majority of tasks that particular O.S. can handle". If you read carefully your own link(wikipedia), they don't mention People or Things, so the "Majority" fact can be applied to either of those two cathegories.
When we talk about majority of THINGS that a particular O.S. can handle, does Linux is mainstream anymore? No.

Yes, majority is represented by consumers when we talk about people, because we can't be all Pros at the same time, but a mainstream-ready O.S. should HANDLE all the tasks regardless your type of professionalism. Windows and OSX, they both can handle ALL the types of consumers & pros, and they're both mainstream, so why Linux can't?

You can't just come and say "Linux is ready for mainstream, but oh.. wait.. it can't do what Win & OSX can, customer's needs-wise."

 

Majority present number of people that use computers,just because you use it for something more than them,does not make you count more or any way more important in global numbers,if majority who are mainstream use OS for that particular tasks and Linux provide them that,than what is there more to talk about,you can twist meanings till tomorrow,it does not change much this reality globally.

Evorax:You can't just come and say "Linux is ready for mainstream, but oh.. wait.. it can't do what Win & OSX can, customer's needs-wise."

You are not making much sense,Linux is enough for majority of users,that minority that can not run Cubase and Photoshop are minority,but I guess you can not accept that,well,your loss,Linux have applications to satisfy needs of a reasonable non-pro power user,others that want Cubase and Photoshop,can not have it,but can have Ardour and GIMP,there are equivalents of many applications you think Linux do not have,please,inform your self better,SineWave can confirm all this,he is using Linux.

 

Yes, Linux have applications to satisfy needs of a reasonable non-pro power user, But wait, if you're someone who needs to professionally adapt to his customers, you need to be able to handle all their formats. Let's say you're a graphic designer and you might get some clients which attempted to make their own version of a cover artwork in PS, then they send you their PSD, but you're all wraped in Linux/GIMP. Can you just come with excuses and tell him to render his project into a JPG and just use it as a reference when maybe his wish is to check all his layers in particular and give him some bonus tips for the money he pay? See? It's not that simple as you might think and it's also not just about yourself, but also about the people you interact with both casually and professionally.

What if i'm a 3d modeller? Can i use Maya/3ds/Cinema4d in Linux? Can i use their 3rd party plugins as well?

Both Windows and OSX can handle all those stuff. How can you come and tell me "i guess you can not accept that, well, your loss" what loss? What do i have to lose if i stick to Windows or OSX, O.S.es which actually can do more Tasks-wise than Linux? I would actually lose A LOT if i would swapp to Linux, because i would lose all the software i've got used to till this day, also profesionall-wise it would be harder for me to satisfy more than one clients (which have Win or OSX installed) just because Linux can't do what Windows and OSX can. I TRULLY understand that Linux can play movies, music, web-browsing and consumer photo/video-editing but that's not enough, when you actually get more with Windows or OSX.
I don't want you to understand that i hate Linux or something, i just point my opinion regarding on what i've personally noticed, not about something which someone told me. I don't point my opinion based on what i've heard, but based on what i've actually realised by myself. You can't even compare Linux with Win or OSX, because it wouldn't be a fair comparison, when you take in consideration the fact that Linux is UNSUPPORTED by the Majority of World-wide software/hardware developers.
If All the developers would add support on Linux, then believe me, i would jump on it right away.

What if i'm a simple consumer which is also an audiophile? What if i want to use a pro soundcard along with some hi-fi speakers just because i'm an enthusiast listener? If we take Focusrite as an example (not to mention even more high-end soundcards) they don't have support for Linux. Now as you can see, even an audiophile can't get what he wants with Linux. Should i trash the soundcard? No. Should i stick to the actual O.S.? Yes.

 

You are like a goldfish in a tank,her word is that tank and she can not accept or dignify anything else,so what is there more left to talk about,you can talk for days and make same irrelevant case on minority of examples of users,but you are making same point as always globally,I do not know why are you even bothering this much,making example for another handful minority will not change anything at all for majority and point that Linux is there for others that does not have that needs and they are majority you like it or not,sorry.spare us both,really,we are wasting time here expanding on examples and cases that does not change big picture,so let drop it,really,I really do not care to change your opinion,I said enough to make what I wrote in first place clearer,enough for me,everyone is entitled to opinion right,I expressed mine,it is time for accepting it and moving on,I really do not want to change yours at all or defend mine or you made any valid points to change it,so move on.cheers

 

No problem, Cheers!

 

Cheers friend,sorry if I sounded harsh,that was not my attention,I get your point and it is all valid in some other context,we all have different expectations from OS and it just happens that world is not filled with us,but with them,if you know what I mean.have a nice day,sorry if I sounded unfriendly,I am weird person so I can sound cold and whatnot,this is great forum and you are great for sharing opinions,hope to bump on your in better context next time.

 

Don't worry, i understood it perfectly. I'm a very chill guy and i friendly adapt to any situation.
Cheers!

 

You really are,wish I am too,spend time alone mostly and even on internet I drove people away with my temper,act superior and demand much,such a nice place here and such a nice people write,really do not want to be unfriendly one.