WIN10 services nobody needs on audio puter...pls share your knowledge

Discussion in 'PC' started by Gyro Gearloose, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Death Thash Doom

    Death Thash Doom Platinum Record

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    Ditto why I am using 10 rather than 7 jnyx and I also agree with you on it being crummy compared to 7. So well put IMextremelyHumbleHO, I do keep my audio-only machine offline and as streamlined as I can. I'll be upgrading my machine fairly soon as it has been a while, Having to bounce/render tracks what seems like a lot sooner than I was a year and a half ago, So that is how I know I'd better get onto it.

    Cheers, Best your way and all :wink:

    Dean
     
  2. jynx

    jynx Platinum Record

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    Cheers m8, Nice to hear another person having the same/similar opinion..
    when i first got this new pc, i was gonna put win 7 on instead of 10, but i did a bit of research about the 7th gen i7 6700k processor,
    Apparently it was made for win 10, meanin it was supposed to be able to make the very best of v10,z operatin system, and also it bein one of the best proccessors for music production...

    So im giving win 10 a try, but so far i really dont like it one bit...

    "i still prefer win 7, but i just cant face reinstalling everything again, i just dont have the energy"

    Anywayz>>If youve a powerefull proccessor then win 10 gives good results, but if your on a 2nd or 3rd or even 4th gen intel i5 or i7, dont bother with win 10 coz any lower than 6th gen, or the i7 6700 or 6700k processor, and win 10 just isnt truly usable.. no matter what m:s claims or anbody says...

    Ive tried on 1st/2nd/3rd/and 4th gen pc,z and they all arent capable


    6th or 7th gen or higher, 4ghz+...at least 16gb ram..and at least an 8 core processor or higher..
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  3. gilles

    gilles Newbie

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    Bonjour à tous quel windows pour la musique assité par ordinateur Pro ou LTSC? Merci de me repondre
     
  4. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    I'd like to clarify some things, please don't take this as a correction, but rather as a report from the custom pc build field :):
    The only difference between a 4790k (4th gen) and a 6700K (6th gen) is the first one used DDR3 and the latter DDR4 and perhaps a 3-5% better overall speed for the newer cpu. Also the 6700K works on the Z170/Z270 platforms which come with at least one M.2 slot whereas the Z97/H97 for the 4790K doesn't, although M.2 support for the 3rd and 4th gen cpus was added later in the form of a bios update. The update actually makes Intel mobos compatible with nvme ssds starting from the Z77 chipset and onwards. (Users who want to install a nvme M.2 ssd on these mobos have to purchase a pci-e to m.2 bridge card and their mobo has to have at least an additional x4 pci-e slot or be able to at least re-config the pci-e bus speeds on their pci-e slots to x8-x8 or x8-x4-x4).
    Moving forward, the 5th consumer desktop gen was practically skipped by Intel, giving only a full Intel cpu gen line-up for their HEDT platform, apart from two low consumption cpus that were meant to be used by OEMs and actually nobody saw in the stores. So, it is easy to say the successor to the 4970K was the 6700K. And because, among others, i own all these i7 cpus (4970k-6700k-7700k-8700k), there is only a negligible performance difference from the 4970K all the way up to the 7700K. For the Intel consumer desktop platform, where cpus started to actually make a significant -enough to upgrade- difference is the 8th and 9th series bumping the top of the lines' cpu core count to 6 and 8 respectively.
    https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790K/3502vs2384
    https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790K/3647vs2384
    https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790K/3937vs2384
    https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-9700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790K/4030vs2384
    Still, with the arrival of the Ryzen 2 in 2019, the Intel platform seems like a dead end, even with their new -not yet released- 10th series 10 core 10900K cpu (not to be confused with the already released 10core 10900X which is HEDT and has 48 pci-e lanes on the X299 chipset). Also, the cpu exploits' patches Intel was forced to issue have put a toll on their cpus performance as well: their new i9-10900X HEDT cpu is -on most cases- slower(!) than their previous 10 core HEDT i9-9900X despite the small upward speed bump. Intel was forced to reduce their HEDT prices to half of what they used to be. Up to this day, Intel cpus are reportedly prone to over 200 exploits, whereas for AMD cpus the number is less than 20.
    So, with AMD's consumer dt platform users can choose from a non-expensive 4core APU all the way up to a 16core cpu monster, with the latter rivaling even the more expensive HEDT Intel cpus. Motherboard choices and compatibility also seem very good for AMD, from the inexpensive B450 which can be had for ~100$ up to the X570, that unlike any offering from Intel has Pci-e gen 4, with ASRock and Gigabyte having mobos with Thunderbolt 3 support as well, which until recently was exclusive to Intel cpus.
    Finally, i wouldn't accuse anyone going Intel of being dumb. Trust -especially with past AMD's failures- is hard to gain, when it's a money and stability issue and clients know that Intel will work for sure, no matter what. With AMD they enter a new ecosystem which they know very little about and it's understable for consumers to be sceptical about it.
    To be honest i never had a Intel cpu fail on me whereas i recently destroyed a Ryzen 2700X on the test bench hehe. On the other hand, AMD were kind enough to replace my cpu free of charge, even if they knew i was OCing the damn thing to oblivion :) I am not sure if Intel would do the same... :dunno:
    Cheers mates
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  5. Gyro Gearloose

    Gyro Gearloose Audiosexual

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    near we all see it that way
     
  6. gilles

    gilles Newbie

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    bonjour les gars personnes pour m eclairer?
     
  7. jynx

    jynx Platinum Record

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    Firstly, "I bow down to your knowledge as you clearly know your stuff"
    But i dont agree about the negligable difference in performance.

    I dont use my pc for anything other than audio, aside from this knackered old acer aspire 1stgen i5 i started out on that i now use for browsing n downloading stuff...

    Natrually each time i upgraded to a better pc, id take my project files etc etc , with me.
    Il give you an example>.

    ive a project file from a friend thats so cpu intensive, that my old 4th gen i7 thinkpad carbon with 16gb ram couldnt play it, even with every track rendered it would stutter like mad and the cpu meter would be redlined and maxxed out..

    The same project file on a Custom built, but old gaming desktop i was using with the 4th gen chip and 16gb ram did the same, except it would play, but only with all tracks rendered except 2 both running serum in a group of 4 instances each, so 8 instances in total , But cpu usage would be just below 90% and would spike up to over 100% periodically and audio would cut out.

    Then i got this optiplex, 7th gen intel 6700k, Same 16 gb ram, just a 250gb ssd, DDr4 of course, and i ran the same project file , and i was shocked..

    It played with no problem , no tracks being rendered at all ,and was at 60%to 70% cpu usage...
    the actual project itself was using only serum, and had over 40 instances in total, plus a plethora of abletons on board fx plugzz..

    I attributed the fact it played and that i could continue the collaboration to the fact that id finally made a half decent upgrade cpu wise.
    Perhaps wrongly, But what else can i attribute it too..
     
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  8. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Thank you for your kind starting remark mate :). Your observation is not wrong but perhaps not absolutely correct either and i will explain why.
    There are many factors that may contribute to a performance boost when moving from an older pc to a newer one. First is a clean OS installation. To perform an "apples to apples" comparison properly, you should have two freshly installed systems with the same ram amount and ssd/hhd combination. Disk drives and their types (ssd/hdd) play an important role in crammed DAW projects. Performance, even among ssds, can also be very different due to the different types of an ssd's connection type (nvme/sata/sas), ssd controller, ssd nand memory architecture: SLC (practically non existent anymore), MLC, TLC, QLC, also nand types like 3D nand (Samsung, Toshiba), 3DXpoint (Intel Optane) etc and finally types of memory cache ssds use or don't (dramless ssds). These factors contribute highly to how an ssd will perform and its performance can be from just acceptable to phenomenal to abysmal depending the combination of all those contributing factors i mentioned.
    Also, with DAW software, some heavy projects take good advantage of the higher overall cpu bus and ram bandwidth a newer pc has to offer. So while the 4970k runs at 5GT/sec bus speed with ram bandwidth of 25.6 gb/sec, the 6700K runs on 8GT/s bus speed with ram bandwidth of 34.1 gb/sec. So, there you have it. I don't doubt for a second you had right out a better experience and performance with your newer system. But i am sure given the same fairness like a new ssd and hdd etc and a fresh install, your 4970K wouldn't be too far from the 6700K.
    Cheers :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
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  9. Death Thash Doom

    Death Thash Doom Platinum Record

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    Anytime, I find being able to exchange experience very useful, I am not a computer wizard by a stretch but I am competent enough to get by. I try to be as I am in person and treat people the way I would if it were a conversation in person. Manners do not cost us anything, So always a pleasure talking with decent people jynx.
    Thanks for the comprehensive details on the topic from the type of person who I seek out and always gladly spend a little bit extra money on in order to have someone that really knows what they are doing when it comes to building a machine for specific tasks take on areas I am not at all so well versed in.
    That is probably the main and best reason that I have not ever tried to become a computer wizard, I'd be taking time from areas that I am passionate about and enjoy my free time engaging in and where I am not there is a market often with honest, decent people like yourself, I attempt to always spend my hard-earned money in smaller shops or in some cases one person enterprises as feeding money to big retail outlets is just not the same.
    In an ideal scenario, there would be <heck only knows how many variables are at play and reduce it down to a handful here> and then we could quite easily compare like for like. As you and us all know that'll never be the reality, therefore all we can do is continue as we do.
    It is appreciated all the sharing of information and links to useful tools/utilities, Topic threads as this can be more helpful to some people than some may realize. Thanks for getting the ball rolling Gyro.

    My very best to you three and everyone else, Much appreciated stuff/thanks :wink:

    Dean
     
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  10. jynx

    jynx Platinum Record

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    My eyes focused on that sentence first is all, i'll respond to more shortly,
    Coz i just wanted to point out that the thinkpad carbon, sporting the same 4th gen i7 chip youve mentioned, did have a new ssd, as did the older gaming system, tho it also had a barracuda mechanical drive too, But for storage not O:S

    Last year, i bought the pioneer APS SL3N-1T, Which is what i fitted into the thinkpad carbon, and of course after doin so, a fresh install of windows was needed, i didnt have any copies of win 7 at the time, so i went with win 10 coz i had a copy anyway and was exited to get everything installed again..

    When i realised that the project file still had problems playing without having all tracks rendered, i was natrually a bit pissed off and immediatley started to build up the old gaming system i mentioned, as it was given to me by a friend, but it didnt work at the time,and had parts scattered everywhere, so rather than problem solve what was described to me as an issue with C:, i simply used the very same pioneer ssd i initially fitted to the thinkpad carbon, and fitted it into the desktop gamin pc.

    When that desktop pc had problems i was seriously angry and couldve thrown the dammn thing outta the bloody window

    "he he, i nearly did tbh"

    They both had 16gb ram , and had the same pioneer ssd, and both had a clean install of win 10

    "In fact ive used the pioneer ssd in the 7th gen optiplex i bought, due to it having a small 250 gb intel ssd and me having no money to spare on another bigger drive "

    The optiplex also has 16gb ram,and a clean install of win 10, and i must say, even with it fully loaded it boots up to the main user screen within 10 to 12 seconds, and plays the project file with no tracks rendered with relative ease... Before i installed everything, it booted up fully within 8 seconds believe it or not..

    I dont have alot of money, which is why i wasnt just buying a fresh ssd for both the gaming pc and the optiplex, i couldnt afford it tbh..

    Now i can concentrate on the top half of what you said, sorry my eyes seemed to fixate at the bottom of your comment,
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  11. jynx

    jynx Platinum Record

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    Back at ya bro...

    Im the same, " treat people the way you yourself wish to be treated by others"

    Manners dont cost a single penny, indeeed, indeed, Wouldnt it be a great world if everybody had a similar philosophy!

    I admit i can be a little outspoken , I just like to call a spade a spade , rather than a fukn grapefruit,
    Some people like that, some dont.


    And im no wizard,

    "Taskforce beats the level of knowledge i have hands down maan"

    The thing is with me, is that i have a messed up lifestyle and not alot of cash to spare coz it gets spent on my, shall we say "issues"
    So what i know, is from me teaching myself as i go along.. Ya know,

    All thruout my childhood up till around 10 i was helping my dad Build engines and restore 1920,z alvis,z and the Wolsey 6/jag/ford zephur, when i was between 10 n 12 i was doing pcb assembly for him, and at 12 i fixed my first computer,and would try to program my own games in basic on the zx81 and spectrum 48k,
    Anyhoo. the pc i found in a skip and somehow managed to repair it,

    Chances are its completely unknown, but it was an ELT286, Built by walters microsystems, at 13 i was designing mixers and speakers,amps etc etc from the component level n building em,

    when i was 15 i built my first car from the chassis up, it was an astra GtE MK1 which i sold for 2 grand

    "A sick old skool hot hatch that i prefer over the MK1 Golf gti"

    ,Im goin off topic sorry..

    In my experience ive quite often found that what should happen on paper,with pc,z i mean, doesnt always happen in use...
    And thats the only area i disagree with the obviously extremely knowledgable "Taskforce"
     
  12. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    Absolutely agreed. No disagreement here, at least on my part man :).
    What 's described on paper isn't always the case for users. I simply cannot explain why that 4970k machine of yours doesn't perform near as good as your 6700k when it actually should:dunno:, without having a full description of all the components and then i would need to run enough diagnostics to find the culprit there. For example, sometimes it 's just a cpu cooler that needs new thermal paste as the old one has dried out through the years making the cpu throttle down to lower clocks when pushed too hard from demanding applications. For what it's worth my 4970k is just an inch away from my 6700k machine. Same project loaded on both machines: 4970k @ 80% - 6700k @ 75%.
    In general, too many times there's the odd component that may make a whole machine stutter and/or fail where it shouldn't. Mobos play a siginificant part to this (and may die or malfunction before their presumed end of life), ram too, optimal config of a platform's options through the bios palys its part too. Also pre-build brand name desktop pcs (like Dell,HP etc) include non standard motherboards that supposedly are "tailor made" just for the platform they support and you can't buy these in stores, making it even more difficult to assume before hand the performance of such a particular non standard component.
    Cheers
     
  13. Bump

    Bump Kapellmeister

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    I have installed this and toying around the last couple days, seems stable to me.

    I'd like to thank you guys for all the info....as soon as I installed this build, it has been a joy to use windows 10. It feels easier to navigate, lighter and looks cleaner. I haven't installed my DAW yet...so hope it goes smooth.
     
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  14. The Pirate

    The Pirate Audiosexual

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    EXTREMELY stable. I am a W7 fanboi but this W10 I have to admit is great!
     
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  15. au38wzh

    au38wzh Producer

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    Thanks for the Oprekin hint!
    I've installed Oprekin's 2004.172 Lite Plus. No problems so far.
    Do you update Oprekin's release (manually)?
    And asking myself, since Lite (without Plus) is even 'slimmer', why not using just the Lite one?
     
  16. droplet

    droplet Ultrasonic

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    I'm using an oprekin win 10 lite
    works great.

    and I love notepad.
     
  17. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    They have different features which some users may want. For instance Lite Plus keeps the Microsoft Store which you may use for let's say, download something like a wallpaper or a game etc etc.
     
  18. merko

    merko Member

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    It's fine unless you have a potato. Boots in about 3 seconds.

    Stop using potato

    Buy a computer
     
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