Why is there so much stereo width in the low end?

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by EAR TO LEARN, Mar 18, 2019.

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  1. EAR TO LEARN

    EAR TO LEARN Kapellmeister

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    Hi guys, I've notice more times than not, a ton of stereo information is in the low end of bass patches and kick samples I use...

    Can anyone tell me 1.Why is it there in the first place? and 2.How would I remove it all without damaging the character of the sound? Any plugins that can rectify this mess quickly and easily and perhaps the methods you guys use...Thanks

     
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  3. Lieglein

    Lieglein Kapellmeister

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  4. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    I turn samples to mono with an audio editor, or just use the left channel. Same with bass patches. You can put some mono plugin after the synth to make the sound mono. Something like Waves Renaissance Compressor-mono, for example.
     
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  5. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Rock Star

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    1) because it's more versatile to use,
    for ex. you wanna mix surround for film, and you need proper spatial balance, in fact human hearing is very sensitive to spatial recognition in higher lows and mids way more than highs
    2) for ex. using mid-side EQ (such as Fabfilter Pro-Q3) and doing low-cut (=high-pass) on sides
     
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  6. korte1975

    korte1975 Rock Star

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  7. noize2sound

    noize2sound Kapellmeister

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    Most Probably you got stereo depth in high frequency but still you should use some kind of Mid Side plug in. Mid Side Mixing is the secret sauce
     
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  8. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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  9. itisntreal

    itisntreal Member

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    Boz digital labs mongoose
     
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  10. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    There's a nice article about why keeping bass mono has advantages when mixing. Here: https://theproaudiofiles.com/mono-in-a-stereo-mix/

    Excerpt: "What if you like the sound of bass in stereo? Don’t worry, the human brain can’t localize sound at frequencies lower than about 80 Hz." That's very useful to know. :wink:

    Cheers!
     
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  11. axon

    axon Member

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    goodhertz midside or nugen monofilter...both cool ones :)
     
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  12. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Sorry, this isn't precise. The stereo perception decreases below ~ 100Hz, it doesn't stop at a certain frequency. No offense, just sayin'.
     
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  13. mono

    mono Audiosexual

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    Came across this a while ago on tubeyou ,was some good info :wink:
     
  14. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    No offense, of course, it is true. It decreases until you won't be bale to localise it any more. That's why subwoofers are commonly mono and the crossover is set to about 80Hz. The passage I quoted is just the start of the most important passage in the article IMHO. There's some extremely useful info later on. It goes on like this:
    --------------------------
    This means that there’s no real benefit of having frequencies down there panned out in stereo anyway, so you can concentrate on higher frequencies giving your bass that stereo spread. A couple of ways to do this:
    • If the bass you’re using contains stereo information, duplicate the track and put an EQ/filter on each track. On the first track, put a low pass filter at 80 Hz. Use your best quality EQ for this to avoid excessive phase distortion. Now make this track mono; you can sum the left and right channel to mono and you can separate the channels into two mono tracks. This will give you three tracks to compare; choose the one that sounds the best to you in terms of punch, clarity etc. On the duplicated track, use a high pass filter starting at 80 Hz. Go higher with the filter and find the sweet spot where you get rid of some mud but still feel that the bass sound is perceived as one sound.
    • When the sound source is in mono you have to create the stereo width. Do exactly as in the previous example but instead of “monoizing” the low part, you make the higher frequencies stereo by adding chorus or delaying the left or right channel and adding a subtle pitch shift to either side. Make sure it sounds alright in mono too!
    • Send a mono bass sound to a short reverb, filter out everything below 200 Hz on the reverb send.
    --------------------------
    This is what I [usually :)] do, and I have a separate bus just for this mono low end, so you can do whatever you want with it. It's some really great shit! :headbang: lol Try it sometime, mate.

    Cheers! :wink:
     
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  15. Zenarcist

    Zenarcist Audiosexual

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    VUMT has a mono maker built-in.
     
  16. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    Oh, and I HPF the sub bus at about 25-30Hz to get rid of the unnecessary DC offset and lower rumble that cannot be reproduced by most of the sound systems anyway. These frequencies also just eat the precious headroom in the mix, and they can be dangerous for sound systems that cannot reproduce them. With a good HPF with variable slope you can slightly accentuate the more interesting frequencies between 50-60Hz. :wink:
     
  17. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    @SineWave Maybe we talked past each other or it's a simple misunderstanding. Somewhere below 80Hz you don't perceive anymore stereo information, but this doesn't occur suddenly at a certain frequency, it just decreases 'til it's gone.

    And ofc I take care that my stereo mixes/masterings don't have any stereo spread in the low end, but I prefer narrowing rather than eqing for this purpose (means, I lowcut/shelf frequencies in most instruments).
     
  18. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

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    Yes, "monoizing" gradually with a plugin like BX Control will do. The only thing I don't like about that approach is that you don't have such tight control over your subs this way. When you separate the subs, you can apply compression and saturation to it if you want, to make it sound better. Well, the point is - you can do with it whatever you want. :winker: Having complete control over it is not bad.
     
  19. Fudsey Plange

    Fudsey Plange Audiosexual

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    Put a high pass filter on the side in a mid-side context. The original horror at low frequency in the side goes back to vinyl, where you can't have it because it gets etched into the groove on the vertical part of the cut. It won't go down none too well at most clubs where the bass gets mono'd out anyway.
     
  20. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Reaper has a plugin for this purpose, called Splitter, I think I'll give it a try. :yes:
     
  21. EAR TO LEARN

    EAR TO LEARN Kapellmeister

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    So many great replies...Keep this stuff coming guys, all these little bits of info could be used at different times in different mixes. People like myself will benefit from this so much...Thank you
     
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