We (musicians) are not talking about the physical ear but the "inner hearing"
About "deaf people that make music" have you heard of a famous one named Ludwig van Beethoven ? He could not hear the last symphonies
that he wrote .That is one of the best example of inner hearing .

"trust your ears" is a figure of speech that is talking about a person's "taste" in music.
Wrong : Recognizing intervals chords or rhythms does not have anything to do with taste :
You might dislike an interval , chord or whatever that is a matter of taste .
But in ear training classes or whatever transcription work you just have to recognize the interval (s) or chord (s) written .

You see MMJ when somebody wants to take the role of an expert , or someone that knows , he or she better make no mistakes ,
whatever it is about music theory , harmony , whatever .
Otherwise people that know recognize immediately that something is wrong and that they are kind of ridiculous pretentious people
that want to "show that they know" .
It works only with people that do not have the knowledge .
Others recognize you immediately .Bassdude and myself have common background , he has got the world class level , i am not there
but we recognize each other .And we recognize YOU .
On stage people like that gets such an humiliation that they leave the bandstand without anyone asking them to leave .

 

One of the moderators whom I have huge respect for recommended I ignore the comments. So I went to each and clicked "ignore" not fully knowing how effective it is.
Had you not posted here I would never have known the three suggested to ignore were even here.
I know you play really well and are a seasoned player and you really care about the music information being right and I totally support you in that.
I'd like to see you stick around for a while and not get banned because it's great to have some off forum chats about jazz with someone who performs music that actually is jazz and can walk their talk.
Perhaps
To avoid you getting frustrated and possibly banned, can I suggest to select the offenders and click "ignore". It did wonders for me.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss and we both know the proof is in the pudding, in action and in the actual performed music as it is in life.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2018

BaSsDuDe: Surely.... I compose myself since way back.

And I lean from the very best

 

Bonjour monsieur, ravi de vous rencontrer. Je m'excuse, je ne parle en francais bien.

Speak again.

 

I "hear" you ...
But you know what pisses me off is that this spreading of false info influence people who don't know .
I should not care , (it will not last long , too much energy i need to go and go back practice my axe instead !)
Perhaps i will start a argumented thread (like olymoon suggested you to do) .The difference will show ...

 

@retsoff119
I get it - There's a guy on here Tony - he said the smartest thing to me that I am grateful for and it took two goes but I have it now.
Now Tony & I get on pretty well. He's a really intelligent man.
"Be the better man" - because you are. He pretty much said that at me rather than to at the time, but he was right. Ignore them



"You can fool some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time".

You cannot fight two things in this instance. People will eventually work it out for themselves. We cannot change that....and...
As much as our intent is of a protective nature, ramming what we know to be totally true down someone's throat that is living in denial is an absolute waste of time and instead of achieving anything even though we both know we are right, all we do is end up looking like the bad guys.
Give him all the rope in the world. One day he will hang himself.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2018

Sorta. They learned the language just like a child learns to speak [a people language] -- by rote & imitation.

Mid-century jazz musicians (& all musicians throughout all time) learned from their teachers, their scene, and by playing: making music. Making music separated IRL players from talkers, typers & pseudo-intellectual pretenders; it's the one thing all jazz greats have in common (other than heroin, of course).
Beyond music, they were a pretty diverse bunch, from classically trained

to no formal training at all.

So if today's budding jazzer wishes to imitate her mid-century idols,

she may forgo jazz theory studies without breaking character

Alas! Jazz, once the vanguard of cool & musical innovation, is now a depressing retro-novelty. Like propeller beanies & The Three Stooges (who, according to wikip, were a thing from 1922 to 1970, roughly the timeframe of jazz relevance).

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, moves on. Which partially explains why

Tastes change, music changes. Sideshows and Vaudeville all but dead too, but now we got personal adding machines, kitchen ovens that cook food with invisible radiation & portable telephone-TV-Stereo combines to take their place

 

@Lambchop
This was a really interesting set of observations and much of it part of the truth of the history of jazz and also a part of many sides of the truth of jazz in the 21st Century. The beauty of jazz is that its characters and continual evolution even though less noticeable in this century, has regardless withstood the test of time.
The pictures you posted were great. While Bill Evans, Holliday and Baker were junkies, they were among some of the most soulful of any jazz artists to have been a part of jazz. "Bird Lives" which was a great book has Parker begging his sideman not to copy him by becoming a junkie. Red Rodney believed he had to become a heroin addict to be able to play it which is totally incorrect. Fortunately we have evolved in mentality now to know that is not true.

America should hold its head with pride with jazz because it is their only true Artform that is completely original and nobody else can lay claim to it.

Jazz hasn't died. All the Rock, metal, pop, R&B and other styles that moan and whine that there are no gigs to go around, should go to New York City. It still has jazz playing 24/7, 365 days a year. Some other countries like the South of France and places in Spain do too. It hasn't really died, jazz musicians and lovers have not allowed themselves to get caught up in neo-political bullshit or anything that might prevent them from playing. Anyone that visits the Village in NYC can find jazz everywhere going up to 6am in some places.
Something only dies if people let it die.

You are 100% correct too about the playing being the real deal. Some of the moderators did not know that either, but now they do. Jazz musicians despise charlatans. They tend to call them out and this is a worldwide pratice because they know how good someone is within 4 bars of their solo, that is a jazz musician's truth. The history books are full of drummers throwing cymbal's at the feet of musicians that do not cut it to get off stage. Parker in his youth before he became a monster in jazz was one of those victims.
Nice research by the way.

If someone who did not like jazz read an actual book that was certified as containing jazz history or a certified pedagogical work, one thing they would get out of it was the amazing determination so many had to overcome racism,, bigotry and discrimination and never let it stop them getting their music out there. That for me is one of the most inspiring traits that any musician could get from it regardless of what music they like.

There is a great article where Miles Davis talks about jazz to show he did not care about race,colour or creed. One of Miles' african-american friends asked why he had Bill Evans playing piano because he was white. His reply was something like: "Show me a brother than can swing, solo and play like this white jewish boy and I'll listen to you".

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2018

the musical instruments, already injected harmony aesthetics by classical composers, if you want change that, invent a new tonal system.

 

Jazzers are lying blatantly and whoppingly about some things:

1- They pretend they know all the sounds of all combinations of notes accurately.
2- They pretend they can anticipate the next chords confidently.
3- They pretend they can switch the scales on the fly and play with them smartly.
4- They pretend they can make variations better than non-Jazzers.
5- They pretend they can choose the best sounding chords.
.
.
.

That in reality are impossible. Even the most advanced artificial intelligent systems can not do that. If they could now we had the machine music that was pleasant to ears.

Also jazz is about exotically note stacking and forcing the audiences to love their selections and hiding everything behind their note heaps. Who has introduced the note piling exaggeratedly in the jazz fashion for the first time and calling them advanced harmony?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2018

Not sure how to answer that but I know who is introducing word piling. Exaggeratedly is almost as good as the cromulent misnomer below. Almost..

 

It's the stupid form of combination of Sex and Harmonically.

 

Foster911 ,maybe by "pretend" you mean "demonstrate to be the case"

 

Last edited: Apr 15, 2018

@MMJ2017, plz don't spam here. TY