Why does cutting 20hz affects the final sound for our ears?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by Kuuhaku, Jan 12, 2021.

  1. Kuuhaku

    Kuuhaku Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2019
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    203
    Hello, everytime I hear that humans cant hear frequencies bellow 20hz, but everytime I cut 20hz out from a track it sounds like the kick lacks it power... Why does this happens? is it about how mastering deals with the lack of information? I really dont understand why removing it seens to affect the mid of this loop

    Here is it withouth 20hz cut:


    Here is it with:


    The 20hz cut is just before the master soft clipper
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  2.  
  3. Arisu

    Arisu Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Best Answer
    If the slope of the filter is steep enough not to affect any frequencies that you want to keep, it's probably because of phase shifting.

    Most equalisers we use, whether analog or digital, affect not only the frequency response, but the phase response as well - some frequencies now get very slightly delayed and things can sound either more tight and punchy, or the exact opposite. By the way, these phase shifts are also the reason why after high-passing, the peaks of a track sometimes paradoxically get louder.

    If you want to avoid this, you can use a linear-phase EQ - however those cause latency and another artifact may or may not be perceptible (pre-ringing). Try various options and see what works best for you.

    I wouldn't recommend high-passing everything unless it is absolutely needed. Use a spectrum analyser and check if there really is rumble you need to get rid of - synthetic sounds don't have as much of it as recordings of real instruments.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
    • Interesting Interesting x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  4. Haliax

    Haliax Guest

    20Hz is a sub bass frequency, it is felt rather than heard. Sometimes you want the kick to hit you square in the chest
     
  5. Hazen

    Hazen Rock Star

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    412
    Most filters are not as steep, so a highpass at 20hz might also affect the frequency range above 20hz to some degree. Not to mention phase shifting effects caused by hp filters, which will impact the transient / microdynamics of the kick. And please don't use linear phase EQ for highpassing!
     
  6. wavyj

    wavyj Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    81
    Just to add to the above great replies, there's a chance that you introduce ringing in case you use an aggressive slope. I'd start with 12db/Oct at 0 hz and move up the hz slowly until I hear the effect of the kick feeling less powerful.
     
  7. Kuuhaku

    Kuuhaku Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2019
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    203
    Thanks for the answers guys, but can phase shifting happen in individual frequencies if I do it on the master? Because everything is glue together on master so I wonder if they can still separate on the master :unsure:
     
  8. phumb-reh

    phumb-reh Guest

    Well, apart from what others have said, a 20Hz filter will remove DC offset which can mess up your dynamic processors. Also you get less dynamic range if DC is not removed.

    It might on recorded stuff remove some subsonic rumbles (mic/instrument handling noise etc.) which definitely affect compressors and limiters.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  9. dbmuzik

    dbmuzik Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    294
    Simply put.. the original amplitude below 20Hz was strong enough for you to "feel" the reduction of pressure after you cut it. Sound is physical. For one to prove they can "hear" below 20Hz it means they would be capable of more than "feeling" the pressure of an isolated signal below 20Hz like we all can. Instead, they would be capable of identifying the "pitch" of notes played below that range.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Interesting Interesting x 2
    • List
  10. Kuuhaku

    Kuuhaku Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2019
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    203
    this is very enlightening, thanks bro
     
  11. Arisu

    Arisu Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    It absolutely can - and because it's the master, it will affect every instrument and the effect of phase shifting will be more audible. You might be better off high-passing tracks in the mixing stage, so you can only affect the tracks that need it and adjust the filter individually (some will sound best with different frequency, slope and Q)
     
  12. ptpatty

    ptpatty Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    180
    Location:
    USA (East Coast)
    Arisu got it right. Hi-passing should be done on individual tracks in the mixing stage. Also, I rarely Hi-pass kick drum or bass guitar.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  13. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,292
    Likes Received:
    4,028
    Location:
    Europe
    Man, what a nice thread. Well done guys. Way to start @Arisu :wink:
     
  14. Sinus Well

    Sinus Well Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2019
    Messages:
    2,110
    Likes Received:
    1,622
    Location:
    Sanatorium
    Because you also influence frequencies that are way above 20Hz. Apart from that, I don't know any mastering engineer who cuts at 20Hz unless it's absolutely necessary. If there is any cleanup down there at all, it's usually somewhere below 15Hz with a 36db slope.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  15. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    9,127
    Likes Received:
    6,367
    Location:
    Europe
    So, because I found the sound effect very unusual and some of the statements here a bit irritating in regards of this effect, I loopbacked the two parts and tried the low cuts of various EQs (digital and analogue emus) on your first example. None of them produced the (strange) sound of your second example. No matter the slope, no matter the phase, which was, TBH, exactly what I had expected.
    I suggest you check the setting of the EQ or use a different one because this effect should not be there.
     
  16. Kuuhaku

    Kuuhaku Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2019
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    203
    ooh, maybe its about the native FL EQ, thanks my friend, this certainly helped a lot, I was thinkin that it was so strange a change so big like that
     
  17. wavyj

    wavyj Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    81
    Get Fabfilter Q3, you won't need to look for another colourless style EQ again. Same for Fabfilter Multiband and L2.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - does cutting 20hz Forum Date
Why does nexus 5 gui move super slow in reason 12.7 ? Lounge 20 minutes ago
Is music AI real? How does it work? Ai for Music Sunday at 11:47 AM
Heavyocity NOVO Essential. Does it worth? Lounge Dec 4, 2024
Does Ability 5 Pro have some connection with Cubase? Lounge Dec 3, 2024
How long does it take to "learn" and "love" new gear? Soundgear Nov 28, 2024
Loading...