I'm answering my own question really, I've been trying to get a more realistic sounding instrument samples and stumbled on to the answer. I was making my 1st strings library some time ago, but wasn't happy with the samples I used from other libraries. I just couldn't get it just right until I realised that the base wasn't there by listening to a violinist play an open G string on a youtube video of all things. I listened to my library and then the video and the video of the violin sounded deep and warm. So I had a go at matching the open G string until I got the same sound. All the string libraries seemed tinny and unrealistic up until this point.

You can try this new library out and see what you think. The updated NKI is with the new setting are at the bottom of the comments page.

https://audioz.download/samples/kontakt/123803-download_update-fast-strings-library.html

 

Thank you for your work Michael!

 

Read any good orchestration manual and check the avaliable positions and fingerings for the 4 strings.
I think that some libraries from Spitfire offer sul G, if you after the deep sound.
I wouldn't say that string libraries sound bad. Most of the time they sound better than real strings (you have to do tons of eq to get nice tone).
Your problem is probably in your playing skills. Also don't forget about humanizing the midi data.

 

The open strings are going to be the easiest ones for a sample library to get a solid take on. So G-D-A-E. The rest of the tones never sound right to me, as violin player I can tell you that finger positions matter - to a certain degree - but intonation rules all non-tempered instruments. The notes are an in my head and sometimes the note that comes before affects if I play a notes a couple of cents flat or sharp, its a question of feeling, rather than mechanical precision.

Honestly, this is going to get complicated real fast.

Nice lib BTW, but until we come up with more innovative controllers - strings are going to be a problem to emulate.

 

I agree you would need a lot more samples of all the possible positions and slight imperfections with intonation to get close to a real performance. Like you said you'd need some controller of some kind, or maybe use a script to automate slight variations in the played note to get a more real sound, maybe could be done. You would need more time with the musicians to record all the samples. That would cost more to produce so I don't see one coming soon. Maybe a solo violin could be improved on with this technique first. Have you had a go at sampling a violin?

I've redone a demo work to test the whole orchestra with the updated improvement, what do you think?

 

Sounds good and it is interesting and for 90% of the people out there it just as good as the real thing. Most people have never even heard the real thing anyways, so they have nothing to compare it to.

They aren't imperfections, they are a voluntary choice to play the note in a different place for the effect it produces. So if I choose a glissando legato from A♮ marcato on the D string to the open A, I might depending the resonance of the particular instrument actually play it a few cents down from its chromatic position. This is the same effect as what you would be trying to achieve in a synthesizer with double oscillators with one de-tuned a bit from the other... it makes a wider more resonant note and as long as you are less than 20 cents off you are still technically in tune.

Not to mention the hundreds of things I might do naturally very easily on a violin that would require substantial gymnastics on a tempered percussion instrument like a keyboard...... double flat, double sharp, demiflat, sesquiflat, demisharp, sesquisharp, ties, slurs, glissando, sur l'arche, sou l'arche, appoggiatura, acciaccatura, etc ....

I've tried before and it usually requires multiple sample libraries and multiple midi lanes to just get through a few bars. I usually give up after a while once I get past 5 or 6 different libs. I think there is a future for it with physical modeling and newer controllers, but it will take time and a lot of work.

Lastly, I've tried to sample my violin for a friend who wanted to make an oriental soloist string patch. He was happy with it, for me it didn't sound right, and it is much easier for me to just pick up the actual instrument itself and just play it.

Good work though, I know how involving it can be to make such things. It is an achievement to be proud of.