My mixes, especially the heavy parts with distorted rhythm guitars, seem to always give me trouble balancing the mid range. I always end up with a lack from 400 - 600 hz with a spike at about 6/700 hz, and another lack from about 7-1000 hz.. This seems to always occur. Does anyone have any advice or knowledge of why this is the case?

Here is an example of a track I am working on

 

Don't scoop the distorted guitar. And a don't EQ stuff soloed. Only EQ stuff with the whole mix up. Otherwise it sounds good on my phone that is

 

It's funny. I actually tend to boost those frequencies on the guitars to try and fill the lacking frequencies. Never works tho, unless I over do it and then it just sounds like garbage. I try to EQ in context, but I do find myself solo EQ'ing sometimes when trying to solve these pesky problems, thanks for the tip, I'll keep that in mind.

 

Have you checked the usual suspects - ears, monitoring, room. Do you reference against tracks that are balanced in the areas you mention?

 

The room I'm in isn't the most ideal to say the least... but I have been mixing in it for a good while and this problem persist even though I feel I have learned the room pretty well (or maybe not considering these issue). I also do use reference tracks while mixing and I regularly listen to music leisurely in the room as well to get a good idea of what a good mix should sound like in it. It's strange because I use Izotope tonal balance to compare my track and reference tracks, and my reference tracks will sometimes sound brighter, though will have a balanced mid range unlike mine when I try to make it sound similar.

 

I think you've cut a lot of lower mids from the bass and vocals in order to NOT make the mix muddy. I hear quite a heavily compressed bass. You can try increasing the mids on bass and vocals. The LOWER mids. There is more of higher mids in the mix currently. Try taking care of 140-500Hz section. Hope it helps.

 

it's the guitar, it's too loud, too much bass, too center focused.

all the wall of distorted guitar shouldn't exist in the mono downmix, it's stereo stuff. Spread them out, cut the bass a bit. Add delay, reverb push them behind a bit. Too upfront. Automate the Bass and Drum push volume a bit when the heavy guitar sounds coming in the chorus. The guitar sounds fatter than the drum, it a no no, it should be bigger not fatter. Too loud of guitar sound will remove clarity from other instruments because of its high mid content. Trying to fix it by adding high end on the masterbus for clarity is what most people do, it will temporarily fix it, but when you listen to the mix with fresh ear the next day, all the low mids are gone.

when you center focused the guitar, you will 100% made it louder without you ever noticing it because it is competing with vocals and other center element. It will become too loud and will eat away all the bass in the middle because of excessive bass content in it. Then when the mix sounds too bassy, intuitively people will cut the low mid of the bass instruments which make the problem worse.

the side of your mix is so lonely you can clearly hear cymbals hits.

approach the mix in stereo spectrum, instead of frequency balance and don't fix stuff by EQing them in masterbus. Place the elements right in the stereo spectrum, and most importantly automate so they come and go when it matters. Then you will get a proper balance.

I had the same problem 10 years ago with my first few rock music mix, mostly because I'm a guitar player and i want to make the guitar the center of the mix, it should be the center of the mix, but not literally center in stereo spectrum. Pushing them to the side will make the center element's bass popped out and the mix will balance itself out. 90% of mixing is leveling and panning.

I have a lot of example but try to listen Daughtry song in mono, the wall of sound from heavy guitar is non-existence but the mix is big in stereo. You mix for stereo, but mono compatible, not the other way around. It's not club music when people will listen to it mostly in mono.

I could be wrong, but hope it helps.

 

Last edited: Mar 23, 2022

You can leave it like this. Maybe a bit less bass and/or more treble. This you can fix at the amp.
In my opinion the guitar is somewhat to heavy anyways.
But I think you need to train your guitar skills more? 3:00

 

Last edited: Mar 23, 2022

I accidently left a copy of one of the guitar tracks centered on this mix version, I never do that. But there are double tracked guitars panned L and R, I always do that. The bass frequencies are high-passed out of the guitars quite a bit as well, so maybe it's that accidental centered track you're hearing? but it's been high-passed as well since it's on the guitar bus, so I'm not sure what that is you're hearing. I'm not sure why the sides sound "lonely" double tracked guitars are indeed panned hard L and R, so I'm not sure what you're hearing there either, now I'm even more confused haha.

Also, you are saying the guitars are too loud, though compared to my reference tracks, including some Daughtry songs, my guitars sound much less audible, on all my playback devices.

None of this is making sense to me since all of the things you are pointing out are being/have been done to fix the issue, though the lack of the mid frequencies I pointed out still persist.

This is what I mean in regards to the tonal balance of my mix, the lacking mid range.

 

Last edited: Mar 24, 2022

The guitars may sound a little muddy because I accidently left a centered track in the mix along with the double tracked hard panned tracks, which may be why they sound "too heavy" and a little wonky. What's funny is that there is a high pass already on the guitars handling the bass and too much of treble in my mix is already an issue since I can't seem to figure out what is making my mid range be so lacking.

This is what I'm talking about in regards to my tonal curve.

 

i dont do mids

 

There is some panning issues but in that part of the register you sing in and you want to be on top of the mix, it's also the style you've chosen. Don't know about your other songs, not relevant here. You are actually not that far off, Chris Cornell sings a bit higher than you but if your voice is going to live there as his does you have two choices a sidechain->DEq or automated EQ Shifts when the voice is ducked if you want solid instrumentals with a co-existing lower to mid range male vocal.

Regarding "Daughtry" you don't mix in a clarinet in like you do a trombone. One isn't better than the other but they do lead to different choices.

That kick is a bit too clicky and is taking up a lot of room for the style.

There is other things going on but no point in going into other avenues until you get one thing sorted out.

 

Last edited: Mar 24, 2022

it is just about the worst feeling, to work on something while knowing full well; that something in your process is actually just generating more work to do later. Like a cat trying to unravel a ball of yarn. A sunken effort value fallacy, or something.

 

If the guitar tracks that are both panned hard L and R having more similar content, it will end-up in the center anyway. That is how phase works. This is what happened to your track then, because it just sound thick in unison (plus that one track you left in the center). Did you even double track the guitar ? or it is just the same track panned hard L and R with spread/delay ?

Obviously! that is how it is when it is done right! The guitars "appear" louder and bigger but without masking the the low mid content.
It did say listen in "MONO" though on my previous post, where all the guitar disappeared and only the important part remains.

I don't listen to Daughtry much except for the song mixed by CLA. So i suggest you reference those.

 

Last edited: Mar 24, 2022

Obviously I double tracked the guitars, I did state that twice. Why would I use the same guitar track for L and R? That is truly rookie, I'm not that green.

I appreciate you trying to help, I wish some of the things you've said were actually helpful, but most are just super obvious things that either aren't accurate to my situation or do not help the problem.

Through my own critical analysis after giving my issue some more thought I think the surrounding frequencies are/were the problem, rather than the ones that were lacking. Along with some mastering compression issues shoving things down (which has lead me to a whole other world of questions in regards to mastering and getting loudness without squashing the dynamics away).

 

Nice song, but the guitar ruins everything, I would re-record the guitar and use a different distortion sound / pickup etc..!
So I would try to create a better guitar sound.

P.S:. You know, you can't raise frequencies where there aren't any.
As a reminder, here is the magic frequency of the electric guitar:
Fullness at 240 - 500 Hz / Presence at 1.5 - 2.5 kHz / cut at 1 kHz for a 4x12 speaker sound

 

Last edited: Mar 24, 2022

Thanks yeah, I know all of the frequency aspects of guitar, that isn't the issue. I've just figured out what's really ruining the sound of the guitar is the limiting on the master... I'm trying to figure that out now. I'm rather satisfied with the guitar tone for what I am going for. It's just being ruined by compression, the actual tone of the guitar is being completely lost in that process.

 

There's no reason that you couldn't use the same guitar track both panned left and right if you offset them in time by a few milliseconds. I have done that and I'm no rookie. It's nicer sounding to double track with the non linearity that is natural when two takes are played together even if they seem identically performed, though in a pinch it'll work as a fattening up effect as a texture enhancer.

 

Spoiler: The most important EQ tip

The most important EQ tip

Before an audio track can be post-processed, it must first be recorded. We don't always have any influence on the recording, and often we have to live with what we get. But for all those who record an acoustic or electric guitar themselves, this tip is also the most important one of the whole article: Record the guitar the way you want to hear it in the mix. Please make the greatest effort right from the start.

The better the quality of the recording, the better the final result and your options in the mix. Even though we don't want to deal with the recording of acoustic and electric guitars at this point, it is important for me to remember this point: The sound is created in front of the microphone. What influences the sound? For example, the choice of instrument, strings, pick thickness, amp or recording space. The tone control of the amp also contributes a lot. Next comes the choice and positioning of the microphone. Even if you don't have a huge microphone pool to fall back on, it's worth trying out all the possibilities here.

Forget the old saying "We'll fit it in the mix". Equalisers are called "equalisers" in German, because they were originally developed to be able to restore a "distorted" (meaning here: "altered in frequency response") sound. And the best equaliser is unnecessary if nothing is "distorted" beforehand, at least if we are talking about damage limitation of the recording signal.

Sound engineering legend and multiple Grammy winner Al Schmitt says of his own productions that he doesn't use equalisers. For us, this is not to say that using an EQ is a bad thing in itself. In many cases it is the tool of choice to correct a failed or unfavourable recording afterwards. Nevertheless, if you start with an optimal recording, it will be much easier later in the mix.

Spoiler: Controlling mud and warmth in the guitar signal with the equaliser

Controlling mud and warmth in the guitar signal with the equaliser

Guitars often require action in the range between 200 and 400 Hz. With bad recordings, it is not uncommon for unattractive resonance frequencies to occur in this range, which "mulch" the guitar signal. These resonances usually come from the room in which the recording was made, sometimes from the instrument itself. A narrow band cut (with a high Q-factor) of the affected resonance frequency often works wonders. To find the right frequency, it's best to boost the band first and then slowly sweep down the frequency range. The overemphasised frequency will stand out clearly. Now you can lower the exposed range until it sounds more homogeneous. This approach is always best if the resonant frequency is heard all the time. If you hear the resonance only occasionally, you will often achieve nicer results with a dynamic equaliser.

In addition to the classic functions of an EQ, a dynamic equaliser offers a freely adjustable operating point (threshold) and a ratio that determines the amount of boost or cut when the operating point is exceeded. You already know this principle from a compressor. The advantage is that equalisation only takes place when it is necessary. This means: If the resonance frequency exceeds the set operating point, the EQ works - at other points it does nothing. Try it out!
Otherwise, you can also raise the lower mid-range a little if you want to give the guitar more "warmth". Or you can lower it a little to make the guitar slimmer and create more space for the vocals, for example.

Spoiler: The guitar sounds shrill or and floppy?

The guitar sounds shrill or and floppy?

Let's turn our attention to the range between 2 and 4 kHz. This is the part of the signal called "presence", which is very much responsible for the assertiveness. Electric guitars in particular often have a lot of this inherently. If it sounds too "shrill" or "sharp", you can try to soften the guitars a little here. Or you want your guitars to bite through even more in the mix because they somehow still sound too slack? Then try boosting them a little here. It should also be mentioned that many cheap AD/DA converters often have problems in this frequency range. It can help to look for disturbing resonances here and remove them, as I described under point 3.

A little extra tip for those who want to get more presence out of the guitar signal: Try an exciter instead of the equaliser. This generates additional overtones from the signal. The Aphex Aural Exciter is a popular classic that is available in various emulations for your own plug-in collection. Compressors also colour the sound and overtone structure in different ways. Listen!

 

Thanks... I know all of this though. Not going to help my current situation.