Hello All,
This is my first time posting in the forum. After reading quite a bit, it seems like this is pretty well-informed place to get some answers about various topics.

I'm interested in switching over to a new DAW, based on recent events. A brief history:

I started on Pro Tools (maybe around v5 or v6?) and used it until somewhere around 2012. It was suggested by a colleague that I try out Studio One, which I did. I've since used Studio One from v3 to the latest version of v5.5 Professional as my primary DAW. S1 was a major upgrade from Pro Tools, which I didn't realize was massively behind the curve. I keep a copy of PT v11 or v12 just to open old projects for exporting into a different DAW, but Pro Tools has been dead to me for a long time. The company has been out-of-touch with it's users and tends to rely on name recognition much more than actual performance.

Additionally, I work with Ableton Live, but only for actual live applications (mainly running audio backing tracks, midi switching, automating effects, VST instruments, etc.). As a DAW, it seems much more geared towards electronic music makers, producers, beat makers, etc. I've also used older versions of Reaper as a rewire DAW when I ran out of power in old Pro Tools sessions.

Today, I learned all about the release of the new Studio One 6 and I'm concerned about the direction of PreSonus. They went from this underdog company of hardworking people, to a Fender-owned corporation that is clearly now in the cash-grab market. This mentality is exactly what made Pro Tools become irrelevant with the majority of real-world users. When the M-Box came out, it was a victory for the common man, who could now use Pro Tools in their own home studio. Once the major corporate money came in after that, they slowly lost touch, and it all went downhill from there.

I'm looking to potentially switch to a DAW that's as future-proof as possible. The features in S1 that I really like are both the ARA Melodyne and Vocalign integrations, as well as connecting to their other program Notion for ease of exporting/creating sheet music. Everything else seems like it exists in one way or another with various other DAWs.

I like S1, but it's my understanding that the Multi-core CPU usage is basically non-existent and they don't seem interested in these top-requested features, as suggested by their own users. I'm at the point where working in larger sessions is basically impossible from a processing standpoint, and mixing projects with conservative track/plugin counts always seems to max out on processor utilization (creating audio glitching/skips/etc.). I'm constantly having to commit/print down effects just to make the session a reasonable work environment. The fact that S1 v6 doesn't have any CPU improvements or modern features, like Dolby Atmos is concerning. They added lyrics, video, and GUI customization options. Who asked for this? None of these are performance improvements, which to me is the most important aspect of a DAW. If something takes me out of my workflow, it has to be eliminated.

I have a high-powered workstation, but I'm considering upgrading to something really robust with top-of-the-line multicore/thread count, maxed out top-speed RAM, all M.2 and SSD high-speed drives, and all the other fixings for a top-tier machine that will last for years to come.

That said, I'd like to hear any suggestions that anyone has on which DAW they use and why.

Here are some facts to know about suggestions:
-I run a PC, so not interested in any Apple/Mac-Based DAWs like Logic
-Primary concern is performance, CPU utilization, future-proofing

From my initial research, I think I'm leaning towards either Reaper or Cubase.

I like that although Reaper has a bit of a learning curve, it seems very DIY/independent and in-touch with making sure it's constantly updated and functioning. It also seems like it's infinitely customizable, if you're willing to put in a little elbow grease to make it happen. My understanding is that it works very well with utilizing almost any type of CPU and is very lightweight as a program itself. I like that they also make the program for Linux, which shows they actually care about making the best program for everyone. The only other DAW I've heard about on Linux is Bitwig, which seems cool, but is a little too Ableton-esque for my purposes.

Cubase seems like it's much more GUI-friendly and much more familiar to other DAWs, which is nice. I don't know much else about it, but it's designed by the company that invented the VST format. Talk about premium plugin integration. I would think they know how to do it the best.

With all that in mind, any suggestions or information you guys could provide on which DAW to use and why would be greatly appreciated. I'm here to learn. Thank you in advance.

 

To be honest I think most people choose their DAW kind of randomly or due to popularity.
I probably could'nt switch from Cubase to another DAW mainly because im used to the interface , shortcuts etc.

 

When you speak to future proofing, do you intend to pay for Cubase and every update needed thereafter, to continue running it?

If money was no major factor in my decision, it would be Cubase. If I was "tracking, recording and mixing" more than "beat making", I would pick Reaper. If I didn't know any of them already and wanted something capable, but also creative, I'd get Ableton. But my real answer is, of course; Logic

 

i started out in Cubase and ended up in Reaper because of the versatile and customization but at the end of the day it just depends on how your workflow is and what your going to be doing

 

Ableton is wonderful for, well, Live (loops + controllers), or even dj-ing. Not very good at midi-editing. Arrangement view is limited compared to Cubase or Reaper, but automation works well. I love its directness and stock plugins. Max for Live is insanely good. Crappy plugin management BTW. Better user-interface than Cubase or Reaper IMO.

Cubase is great for recording, handling lots of tracks (Logical Project Editor rocks!), logical-editing, midi-editing, and also score-editing. And very decent stock plugins too. It even comes with a modest sample library. Cubase has a few crappy user-interface issues, but i like the overall look. Way better plugin management than Live, although that seems to have improved with Live 11. If you follow the Steinberg annual sales, you can keep up-to-date for much less.

Reaper had a much steeper learning curve for me, but i've way more experience with Cubase, so maybe someone will weigh in with their Reaper experience. At some point i decided i'd rather spend my time on making music with Cubase/Live than nerding around with Reaper.

Future-proof, no idea, but my bet would be that Cubase and Live will survive longer than Reaper.

 

These days all DAWS being nearly equal, some pluses and minuses for each, for me, its overall workflow that dictates which I use. ITB, OTB, multitracking etc., for me its 99% Ableton Live. With the right outboard for multitracking there isnt much it cant do and do it fast. So yeah, workflow!

 

Hmm.. interesting because after using/trying every DAW under the sun and beyond, I actually think comparatively these are some of its strong "pluses" points! Like as in no competition. I love the customization options and super speed of workflow shortcuts etc. But I guess horses for courses and all that...

 

It's Cakewalk but that's my secret weapon and you'll ignore it anyway

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2022

If I was making "some type" of music, I'd probably take the time to look into what other people making the music you like are using. If you happened to notice a heavily lopsided presence, you might want to take it as a vote. Because all those users have done the same decision making as you are right now. If someone told me Cubase was great for orchestral stuff because of articulation sets, I'd believe them. I would even factor in how many high quality in-depth tutorials I could find available from those same sources.

But it doesn't mean I want all my old work locked up if I was to require that. Cubase users have had to upgrade through 3 or 4 full versions against Logic Pro. I'm not calculating the cubase total, but vs 150 or 200 for logic in the same time frame. You can always count on a full new copy costing about 500$ but it's really more.

 

interesting thread and timing, I'm in the same boat. I agree with everything you say about S1. While I love its workflow, it's not a "professional-grade" DAW at this point. I'm getting more and more clients these days and I'm constantly annoyed by tracks not playing, automations not being in exported files, and other bugs that have been existing for 2 versions now - stuff where I need stupid workarounds for that are just time killers.
It seems like Cubase is the closest thing to Studio One as S1 is being developed by former Cubase devs, it would still take quite some time to adjust as I'm so used to many of the quality of life features in S1.
I probably would enjoy Pro Tools for mixing and editing, but the midi "features", especially the drum mapping, seem horrendous.
Reaper seems really powerful, but like some of you already said, too clunky and time consuming.
Logic seems like a weird choice because many plugins still don't work properly on apple silicon chips? I don't want to be a beta tester for native instruments...
This all would be so easy if studio one just had a good and efficient audio engine

 

"Here are some facts to know about suggestions:
-I run a PC, so not interested in any Apple/Mac-Based DAWs like Logic
-Primary concern is performance, CPU utilization, future-proofing"

Reaper and Bitwig.

Reaper will run anywhere, Bitwig is super well optimized and both DAWs are updated regularly, I get at least 2 Reaper updates every month and at least one Bitwig update.

Disclaimer: Reaper isn't too time consuming, you guys just need to want to learn it and... learn the fucking thing like you would spend your time learning any other DAW. Shit isn't the boogeyman.

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2022

Yah, I agree. Cubase is nice, but the cost is hard to justify for me (although I'm a mere amateur artist). I used a lot of DAWs prior to Cubase.. the most recent would have been Fruity Loops, then Reason (I think I owned up to version 9). Then I decided to get a bit more serious, and I believe it was Cubase Pro 5 that I purchased next. Then, I took a bit of a hiatus from music creation, and it came time to upgrade, and the cost was too much, so I went to 7.5 Artist (still have that license). Then, another long hiatus in music creation, and it was again, time to upgrade. I decided I'd try this Reaper that people I knew were talking about.

Unfortunately for me, I didn't think about the fact that they are guitarists / band musicians, and Reaper is a bit better suited towards working with audio than it is with MIDI. I still like it a lot though, and it's hard to beat the value. $60USD, or whatever it is, you get two FULLLY unlocked versions of a very powerful software - that is unfortunately a bit more clunky to work with for me than Cubase, but I can do everything in this DAW I could do with any other DAW... it's just a matter of understanding how. I have pretty much figured out all that I need to figure out for my usage, but there's just a few things I wish it did a bit better (envelopes!). I am unsure if there's a DAW that has better performance than Reaper though, so that also keeps me as a user. Anyways, enough tooting Reaper.

I like it a lot, but many tutorials I watch involving electronic music genres use Ableton Live, so I've been curious about that. I'm not sure I'd go back to paying for Cubase.. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay that upgrade price so frequently, but it's good to see that R2R figured out how to beat the eLicenser. They've gotten enough of my amateur musician dollars. I'm going to stick it out with Reaper for a while longer (I figure at least another year), then I may decide between Ableton and Cubase.

 

the default setup in Reaper yeah but when u start to add them extensions from reaper it becomes anything u want it to become but yeah it does take some work and researching but it is well worth it one thing about Reaper is it does introduce you into true Freedom when a person take out the time of the day to give it a chance

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2022

I'm Fully Paid up for

• Studio One Pro (just upgraded to 6 with a bunch of new stuff & fixes)
• Logic Pro
• Ableton Live
• Reaper.. Fantastic ARM native DAW that's stable, affordable and jam-packed with features
• Profools Native (not updated since 10)
• Bitwig

I'm never out of Bitwig now days. Its the most creative and inspiring Daw out there. It's packed full of features, instruments and flexible option strait out of the box and is constantly in development which is paid for my a reasonable model of a yearly fee. Its a serious DAW and you can easily make a record, sound design, compose, mix and master strait from Bitwig. Soon as they develop the Video ( I use a third party VST ATM) it will be a sound to picture powerhouse (it is now).

 

Last edited: Sep 30, 2022

Thanks for the reply. Music is both my profession and my passion, so I care a lot about my tools. What's the point of having a dull, rusty knife that can barely cut anything just because it's inexpensive to buy? ;)

Money isn't a factor, but the principle and ideology of the developers is really the most important issue. For example, I'd be willing to pay $600 to switch over to Cubase if it's a superior DAW, but I won't pay $150 to upgrade from Studio One v5.5 to v6 because v6 is not a pay-worthy upgrade. I honestly want to see the list of the thousands of users that were banging down PreSonus's door screaming, "You have to add LYRICS to the next Studio One update!" Along with that, a new feature they're touting is the ability to independently pan the Left and Right channels of a Stereo track. Are they serious? You've been able to do that in Pro Tools for almost 20 years. This is not a "new", nor noteworthy feature. Meanwhile, you still can't select a stereo audio track (say, by right-clicking it) and select something to easily split it into two mono audio tracks. Again, a feature that's been available in Pro Tools probably since the first version. This is like DAW 101-type stuff that they still haven't addressed.

These may seem like small things, but it's really an indicator about the culture of the company as it pertains to truly making the best product. For example, look at the the advent of the "YouTuber". Once upon a time, people made a video (usually filmed with a potato, involving a whiteboard - See Rick Beato) for a pure reason. They wanted to demonstrate or share something with the world. As time progressed, monetization was introduced. After that, people realized they could actually make a living by simply making YouTube videos. Unfortunately, that's when it all begins to fail, because the once-earnest guy on the internet now finds himself on a treadmill. You stop making videos for a pure reason (something that still exists on things like Forums) and you start creating "content" to serve the algorithm. Suddenly, your videos have click-bait titles, ridiculous and misleading thumbnails, run-times that strategically place the maximum amount of ads, and focus on every possible way that you can say "Like, Subscribe, Share, and Leave a Comment."

Point being, this is exactly what happens to most software manufacturers that move to a subscription-based model, like Presonus and Avid before them. They always end up resorting to gimmickry and transition into a "quantity over quality" model because they now have to serve both the corporate overlords and the subscriber. They end up throwing a new color of paint on an old wall every month just to say, "Look, we made a new thing! It used to be yellow, but now it's RED!" Meanwhile, the wall still has the same bug-infested insulation and old corroded wiring behind it, but they feel they've given you a reason to stay subscribed and pay them for one more month.

This is why I was initially attracted to Reaper. It seems like a passion project, which could be spearheaded by one guy for all I know. That kind of motivation will always drive a person to make the best product, as opposed to the best gimmick for the most amount of profit.

Thanks again for the input. It's most appreciated.

 

Thanks for the info. I've never been afraid to learn a new system if it makes my life easier for the long-haul. I've heard nothing but good things about Reaper and it's kind of top of my list right now. Everything new requires learning. I don't loathe it, I embrace it because it's just an opportunity to become better. How could you go wrong knowing how to operate multiple DAWs? Are people afraid to become too awesome at audio engineering and music creation? ;)

I'm definitely keeping my eye on Bitwig as well. It seems like the creators have a similar motivation to that of Reaper, where they really want to make something great for the sake of making something great. I thought I read somewhere that the Bitwig developers were some of the original guys who designed Ableton Live, is that correct? If so, I like the motivation of having a chip on their shoulder to out-do their once-upon-a-time-teammates. Like I said before, I like Ableton for it's live functionality, but not really as a primary DAW for all sorts of music production. Bitwig seems very similar function-wise at the moment, but I'm very interested to see how it progresses.

Thanks again for the reply.

 

I'm game, tell me about Cakewalk. I know very little about it. Why do you prefer it over all other DAWs? Unless you don't want to reveal the inner workings of the secret weapon, which I would totally understand. ;)

 

Good to know. Really solid information. I agree with you on all your Ableton points. I find it's really clunky for MIDI editing and I agree on the plugin manager. When I use it for live situations, I tend to try to utilize all of it's native features as much as possible (plugins, effects, and instruments) before using 3rd-party stuff because that's where I've found conflicts. Thank you for the reply.

 

Thanks for the reply. While I agree with the concept, a lot of people who use a DAW for "some type" of music don't necessarily use it because it best serves that style. For example, yes, if a beat-maker said you should use Ableton Live or Bitwig, that would be a no-brainer, because it's extremely intuitive as it pertains to that style of music. However, if Chris Lord-Alge says he uses Pro Tools, it's not necessarily because he wouldn't be better served using Logic, Cubase, or Studio One, it's because he knows how to use it and has no motivation to learn something else. It already seems like it took quite a bit of convincing and effort just to get him to integrate a DAW into his analog system in the first place. ;)

I do totally agree with you using the Cubase example for orchestral stuff. That's the input I'm looking for with the thread. However, I do know that unconventional uses of things can sometimes produce amazing results, and most of the time it's not very "status-quo". For example, I use Ableton Live as the primary brain for a live Rock act. Most Ableton users are utilizing it for electronic styles of music, DJ sets, and things that are about as far away from a live Rock band as possible. Most Rock guys will use Pro Tools or something similar to do what I'm doing, but Ableton really is superior in the live arena, as it was initially designed to be used for live performance.

Thanks again for the response.

 

Thanks for the reply. That's really good to know about the cost of Cubase. Do you know if the upgrades were warranted? I don't mind paying whatever it costs for software as long as the value is proportionate. Again, my beef with Studio One is not that it's a bad DAW, it's historically been pretty solid, it's the fact that they've clearly shifted to prioritizing cheap gimmicks over actual performance enhancements. I wouldn't mind paying for the new version (even full price) if the improvements were blowing my face off, but I simply don't see anything noteworthy. You have to be suspicious of any company that jumps from v5.5 straight to v6.0 without a massive overhaul. These updates they made should be v5.6 and it should be free. I don't like supporting greed. I understand everybody has to make money, but you also need to serve the people who use the products in the first place (more than your shareholders), or you simply won't last in business.

On a separate note, God Bless R2R. May they live forever in good health.

Thanks again for the reply.