Being one of those bedroom dipheads who knows only basic theory (and has bad ears haha) but doesn't use presets (hey, I love my sounds, not someone else's even if it's a some basic wave), AI is a can of bees for a lot of reasons, from copyright to cognitive ones. Not sure if someone will be interested in elaboration though

 

There is no line.
I just seen a french politician pretending "creating and composing music".
After some questions ... he just copy pasted some poem into AI song generator with a prompt.

That's what you get : ppl spending countless time mastering something on one side, and others mastering nothing.

At the end ... i just don't care.
Because "the industry" will die soon, but music never die.

May be i will just listen to music i already know, being made by real humans.

 

First, most musicians aren't unionized at all. While my country does have a social security fund for artists with reduced contributions, enabling cultural workers to practice their profession, it's not enough.

Second, there are of course some cultural centers and youth centers that look after musicians regionally. They sometimes provide rehearsal spaces, offer workshops, and help small bands find performance opportunities.

Third, music venues like operas or state orchestras are financed by the state through taxpayers because the upper class enjoys going to the opera, and if the venue doesn't generate enough revenue, it receives subsidies, just like theaters do, to keep it afloat. This applies more to classical music; everything else isn't considered worthy of support. Our society doesn't see punk, rock and roll, metal, folk, or pop as essential and therefore doesn't require funding.

Furthermore, all of this is controlled by major labels, television stations, and large radio stations. We have a self-founded private radio station, FSK (Freies Sendekombinat), which relies on supporting memberships and small donations. There's an alternative radio and cultural program there that's outside the mainstream.

If we don't learn to band together and start our own projects or actively support promising initiatives, the current situation won't change; in fact, given the current state of affairs and AI, it will likely worsen.

We also have self-managed, formerly squatted buildings, now with leases, that offer performance spaces and meeting places. The entrance fees and food prices are very reasonable and only cover the actual costs, like electricity and gas, but it's culture. There are also self-managed or cultural associations in other parts of the city.

As you can see, you can wait a long time—nothing will come from above.
That's how it's always been and always will be. Remember, money flows from poor to rich.

Spoiler: Free radio forever! 25 years of full frequency Since 1997/98 – 25 years of multiplication of amusement

Free radio forever! 25 years of full frequency Since 1997/98 – 25 years of multiplication of amusement

– 20 years of new music from China FSK Benefit Party – Friday, March 20, 2026 From 10:00 PM, Fabrique – Gängeviertel, with music from and for FSK: Martha's Record Box – STILL (C)RAVING – Sensory Overload – Moontwoer – douyoulikechinesemusic – Doctore Xyramat – Luc Le Truc – Konstantin Unwohl

 

Agreed. The music "scene" was perfectly fine before "the industry" took hold of it (back in the early 70's). "The Industry" then twisted, mangled, and deformed it into a corporate $$$ venture so talentless, masochistic dickheads at the top of the pyramid could get rich. All the while musicians slaved away barely getting anything for their efforts. I would love to see "the industry" die a quick and well deserved death so that the music scene can revitalize itself to its former glory.

 

All valid points and great discussion!
I see "AI" is an ambiguous term. As I wrote on the thread, AI can be everything from correcting your mix up to prompting a whole track. That's the entire discussion where is the line for you? Will you use ai (or LLM or whatever you want to call it) to give you chord progression ideas? Maybe mastering? Will you upload your mix to a tool that will tell you what's wrong with it? Will you replace your guitar player with an AI player that can play whatever you want?

The discussion isn't about copyrights or creating a full song based on a prompt. It's about where do we, as musicians, draw the line where we welcome AI (artificial intelligence in it's purest form) to our workflow. Can I use Claude to code me a tool that'll automate some of my work?.can I consult Gemini about lyrics or key and chords?

 

The line is mass produced "slop". The difference between us using tools such as scaler, or loops, "AI" mixing tools is that its still us doing that. Its us making the decisions, making the final call on what sounds good, joining the elements together.

Funny fact, we, as human creators cannot create 30 songs in 5 minutes. Thats the line imo. When this slop get uploaded to the streamers in mass numbers, it takes away from authentic human created works. IDK exactly how the algorithms work, but i do know that its partially a numbers game, and a timing game. I believe to stay in the algorithm, you should have a release monthly. At minimum quarterly. When these slop "creators" upload en masse they can steal the algo's attention away from "real" artists. Uploading slop, that was trained on our works, taking away from the very people in which it was trained on.

Now. I have no problem using AI as a "tool". I use Suno daily. Im also a professional producer, songwriter, engineer of 20+ years, with multiple charting releases with various artist. I have engineered scoring sessions for some of the biggest TV shows of all time. I have songs placed on Apple, Netflix, HBO, ESPN at any given time. I play guitar, bass, keys, drums, flute, banjo, harmonica, accordion, concertina, voice, etc. I even design and build my own synthesizers from scratch, and have circuit bent something like 100 devices, which i use in my productions. I use Ableton, Protools, Bitwig, Logic, Reason, iOS / "DAW free" Analog, and recently acquired Studio One / Fender Studio. Im also working on a series of plugins with a programmer friend of mine. I say all this to show im not some spring chicken. Im an experienced, working professional who uses a wide variety of tools.

If you are using "ai" as just another tool, go for it. If you use it as an inspirational starting point, great, same thing as using a sample from splice. if you use it to hum a melody and get a trumpet, great, no difference doing that than there is humming into ableton, getting audio to midi, and using kontakt to get a trumpet. Need a jazz sample in a Persian scale, with glitched breakbeat IDM drums? cool, go for it, chop and screw that bitch up until YOU actually create something with it. Layer in your own sounds, record some bass, program some slapping drums, write to it, etc. Just be careful with copyright and the so-called "watermark" (which i don't believe is real or if it is, that its actually trackable once you chop and screw something beyond recognition, but thats another story that i will not get into)

The only difference between that, and using splice etc, is that it was trained unethically, but, whats done is done. Would i prefer that it was trained fairly, and that artists were compensated? yes of course. I know for a fact that it trained on some of my artists releases. I was pissed at first, and still am honestly, but I also want to hum a melody and get a trumpet, so ...??? Me not using Suno is not going to stop Suno from existing. The labels settled, and fucked us all as they always do. They will use it to remove the middle man, which is us, creators of all sorts. Im not going to stand by why these corporate pigs use the tools in which they trained on my music.

I guess im sort of rambling now, and hopefully got my point across. I had terrible night terrors last night and only slept 2 or 3 hours, so Im pretty out of it, sorry guys if i rambled too much lol.

TLDR, "slop" = bad. Creating with AI as a collaborator = same thing as using Splice (except unethical )

heres some Persian Jazz Glitch lol

https://suno.com/s/S6dlnWZ12OjbNxwq

 

Last edited: Feb 3, 2026 at 11:02 PM

At this point, we know most major AI generative tools, in all fields, have been unethically trained and deployed to the public in an adversarial manner by unscrupulous, amoral, bad actors, and that's me being generous. So any discussion about utility has to be prefaced by the moral and ethical discussion, you can't seperate the two in that context.

Where you can separate it is if we rephrase the question as it should have been asked.

"What part do ethically trained AI generative tools have in the creative process?".

Then you can discuss the utility more in keeping with these tools being a supercharged assistants and explore themes around, authorship, creative ethics, authenticity, augmentation of deficiencies, collaboration, and so on. However, another issue arises in that there is no general consensus on those topics, because they're subjective and personal to one's experience and ethical framework. For example if you're already using a bunch of tools to augment your deficiencies then you've likely crossed the line of anyone who has put in the work to "foster" the knowledge and skill to achieve the same and greater results off their own back.

I think many would argue that any tool that democratises a process to the degree that it can completely replace us, it's probably more detrimental than it is beneficial, at least in the short term.

If you're using any of these products without acknowledging that you're waiving the ethical considerations for personal gain, you're living with cognitive dissonance.


Edit: considering where we are, if you're using warez then any ethical discussion is waste of time, just carry on doing whatever the fuck you want.

 

Last edited: Feb 3, 2026 at 10:17 PM

Completely disagree. This industry needs an agonizing slow death, quick one is too merciful.

By the way, to clarify my earlier post, I'm anti-AI in any creative department be it music or images or video but it is a really powerful tool which shines for mundane technical things like cleaning up bad mic recordings or noise removal and that's where I draw the line - just tools, not creative consultants, I have real friends for that

 

Quite the bitchin' track. Shine on!