When do you want to convince yourself "not to produce any kind of dance music"?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by ICWC, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. ICWC

    ICWC Ultrasonic

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    Dance music is the #1 enemy to the true music world. If you can't eradicate the "dance mentality" disease from your conscious and subconscious mind, no hope to apprehend the music's beauty.:no:
     
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  3. complete

    complete Producer

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    Interesting approach, but imho you're wrong. :yes:
     
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  4. taskforce

    taskforce Audiosexual

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    A big percentage of classical music is considered dance music. Jazz is dance music for the most part too. Rhythm is the most important, fundamental and indispensable part of music even when absent lol.
    Welcome to your new music world, you yourself and thee.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2018
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  5. Recoil

    Recoil Audiosexual

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    Only Eurodance :disco::speaker:

     
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  6. Spyfxmk2

    Spyfxmk2 Audiosexual

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    ^
    @ICWC [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] ....just Be happy man :yes: :winker: :bow: :

     
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  7. Fudsey Plange

    Fudsey Plange Audiosexual

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    When do you want to convince yourself "not to produce any kind of dance music"?

    Funerals. And Bar Mitzvahs.
     
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  8. WeRAllFosterChildren

    WeRAllFosterChildren Producer

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    The notion that some music IS "dance music" is IMO a bogus pretense. It's subjective, if you dance to it, anything can be dance music, but that only applies to you. Not unlike "think music", "food music", "sex music", etc. If anything, different kinds of music test how good of a dancer you are. I guarantee that most of what Merce Cunningham or Twyla Tharp have danced to hasn't sounded like Daft Punk, for instance.

    Part of what made this obvious to me from a young age is that much of what gets publicized as "dance music" does not inspire me to dance. From a production perspective, I think that the various branches of techno/EDM (not going to argue the distinctions) are inspiring, while often woefully lacking in rhythmic sophistication. A lot of that IMO has to do with DJ culture, that mixing stuff that has to be a single, even meter and be (or quickly resolve to) 4/4 is analogous to making fine art with Duplo blocks. You can do it, but it's so coarse and crude, it would be terrible if that sort of constraint became the norm...

    I think that functional music is generally under-rated, because it does not lend itself well to formula, to being marketable to others for the same purpose. Music for rituals and film scores I think of as functional also. Anything that is not there to tell a narrative story or be for purely abstract aesthetic purposes tends to be what I consider functional. Like I was reading recently about how Ryuichi Sakamoto volunteered to create playlists for his favorite restaurant in NYC because what they had struck him as so thoughtless and uninspired. But because it's for that function doesn't mean that it would fit at the Four Seasons, or Chuck-E-Cheese.
     
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  9. SmokerNzt

    SmokerNzt Producer

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  10. tooloud

    tooloud Producer

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    8:15 the time that it's always been
    First let me state I was born in the 1950's. I grew up hearing a mix of eclectic music that is unimaginable today. AM radio didn't have a demographic - it had to have a bit of everything for every age group. I have witnessed music changing over six decades and as a musician, I have drawn on all styles that allow me to be a music producer. I use the term producer in the old fashioned sense; where you are the equivalent of a film director. I wholly embraced acid house in its early stages in the late eighties and went on to create tracks in a progressive house style in the nineties. The technology of electronic music has developed in sync with my life, from my first days playing in bands where I had a Rhodes piano, and a Minimoog to today where I have an almost unlimited sonic palette.
    Which brings me to the opening post. I disagree that it is a disease but I view it as an hypnotic distraction. It seems that an inordinate number of music production tools are aimed at creating what I would loosely label EDM. Today's DAW simply begs you to create a dance beat. My first TEAC 8 track was a blank canvas.
    I think the thing that concerns me about beat based music is its current longevity and this stranglehold stifles large scale shifts in new musical styles emerging. Pop, rock, heavy rock, glam rock, prog rock, punk, new wave, new romantic all happened in the space of ten years, each making way for the next. Yet a dance track made with an 808 and a TB-303 in 1990 is still as relevant today and the obsession with those sounds continues to grow.
    If ICWC doesn't care for dance music there is probably more choice today to find a style to his or her liking than ever before. It's just harder to find. I don't listen to dance music myself anymore. I spent 15 years damaging my hearing in clubs where I thought DJ'S worked miracles.
    If you reached the end of this somewhat self indulgent essay, I thank you for your time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  11. Nana Banana

    Nana Banana Producer

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    You look great for that age :rofl: Dance Music? Well at least they don't call it Disco anymore :rofl: I make Dance Music, Ambient Music (used to be "New Age", but now with a new twist), and whatever music I "feel" like creating. Including styles that aren't
    categorized. I really don't think that there is any form of sonic expression that can be considered "the #1 enemy to the true music world", (you first need to explain WHAT the True Music World is). That's pretty harsh. Reminds me of Trump saying the media was the enemy ...Anyhow, for gawds sake, just make music that makes you happy. If it doesn't don't. Keep it simple in a complicated world. And as the old lyric goes: Don't worry ....Be happy" :wink:
     
  12. WeRAllFosterChildren

    WeRAllFosterChildren Producer

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    Those be RANTING words! I would say that contemporary DAWs facilitate making boring beats. I probably won't get on with them until I make a DAW of my own, which is beyond my skills.

    IMO they try pretty hard to make it a chore to make something I consider danceable.
     
  13. Nana Banana

    Nana Banana Producer

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    The trick ...Do NOT Quantize ...Fingers only! It gets Real interesting. Dawless Jamming in a DAW! Like pressing record on a Tape Recorder and just doing it ...Makes ya have skill n stuff :wink: I seriously use my DAW like it's a Yamaha MT-120 cause it's a lot more fun and challenging :yes:
     
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  14. WeRAllFosterChildren

    WeRAllFosterChildren Producer

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    The problem is that these sequencers try to quantize to an ideal "absolute time" which does not exist. We have known with evidence that there is no such thing as "now" for about a hundred years. The key is to have events quantized only in relationships to each other. And this might vary from one track to the next.

    Even just hitting record and jamming with your fingers still pretends there is some "master clock" behind their recording and playback.

    IMO what we really need is not more features, not more bells and whistles, but some DAWs that fundamentally re-think how the schedule events in time. Something that isn't based upon linear or looped tape, but where time is a programmable function not unlike how pitch is.
     
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  15. Nana Banana

    Nana Banana Producer

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    OK, thanks for explaining exactly why. Makes sense now. That's deep, and very humanizingly realistic. Linear time has been the human default since I can remember. There has to be something out there that is at least as close to your requirements as possible. I'm actually going to research this. Thanks for your input. It has me curious indeed :wink:
     
  16. WeRAllFosterChildren

    WeRAllFosterChildren Producer

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    Here's a more clear analogy of what bothers me about various kinds of "electronic dance music": chiptunes!

    I like chiptunes. What's cool about them is they originated from trying to make the most of primitive 1970s-1980s digital technology. The limited polyphony inspired people to be creative with their use of stock waveforms, arpeggiation, and other tricks to get the most out of them. Creatively abusing this stuff in ways it was not originally intended to be used. It's a great example of style developing when stark limitations inspire creativity.

    IMO, the origins of techno in its various flavors are the rhythmical equivalent to the melodies of chiptunes. Grid programming of 16 steps which can be on or off wasn't done because people play drums like that, it was done because it was cheap and easy - a limitation born of technical compromise. And not unlike chiptunes, people have run with it and done some amazing things.

    But whereas most people in electronic music were absolutely freaking relieved to move on to having actual choices of pitch, waveform, voices, etc - most seemed content to adopt the rhythmical limitations permanently. So my own Twilight Zone reality is like being in a future where people only make chiptunes from now on. There is a strong stylistic lock-in because today's cutting edge tools are still built around a technical limitation from 40 years ago. And if you talk with people about it, they look at you like you're so square that you didn't realize how kewl chiptunes are The Now Sound of 2018. Again, I like them, but only as one option among many.
     
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  17. metaller

    metaller Platinum Record

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    Exactly! :headbang: This is what I always regret for!
    And this also affects your music complexity, aesthetics aspects, form, melody, harmony and everything related to that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  18. m9cao

    m9cao Producer

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    i produce 'electronic music', not 'electronic dance music', or produce 'jazz', 'classical',
    the word 'dance music' only existing in those shit djs world,
    'Dance music is the #1 enemy to the true music world', the most ridiculous idea, those shit dj living in his self deception cage and very happy around with those stupid losers in the society,
    'hey!come on, im the heart of the world!'
    please walk just 1 more step away out through the circling of stupid, and seeing the beauty of the true world
     
  19. 23322332

    23322332 Producer

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    Funny, DAWs don't quantize, you quantize. It's your choice not to use tempo automations and bar changes to simulate realistic performance. It may be the not convenient way to do it, but no daw has implemented the academic research from late 80s-mid 90s on rhythms and technology. Which is basic calculus, btw... I guess programmers learn mostly discrete mathematics these days, it is interesting that there is a potential target group that will use a DAW with more advanced tempo and rhythm handling, but there is noone to code it, despite all the information being avaliable since forever...
    And dance music is hardly something bad. Big part of old classical from 16-17-18th century is based on dances. 19th century is mostly music for listening, 20th is garbage that almost killed concert music as we know.
    If someone is skilled enough, writing a masterful disco/edm/country/whatever composition should not be hard at all.
    While we naturally prefer looser rhythms, sometimes super tight rhythms work better stylistically - see military music, aggressive music - metal, hard-style/techno, 20th century horror/experimental orchestral etc.

    The midi protocol is also a limited garbage that has to be replaced with something way more advanced
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  20. DoubleTake

    DoubleTake Producer

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    Tonight we're gonna have a good time. Oh we're really gonna have a good time. Confess you look at her. Confess you'd like to be with her.
    Baby, Blue-eyed Connie Walker Is a fashion model. You'll lose her.do it. do it. you'll do it. Dance yourself mad. You'll like it. Fashion party. We're gonna have a real good time.

    That's all I'd better say on the subject.
     
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  21. WeRAllFosterChildren

    WeRAllFosterChildren Producer

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    DADGUM BEATSMITHS AN YER TEENIEBOPPER BOOTIESHAKERS!!!!
    (I'll just leave this here...)

     
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