difficult in not native...
sitting here thinking...lol...10 minutes

i think even think to much bout above can make creativity brain mechanic flow broken...
when i open DAW a world of unknown and to discover open all the time no matter how much i know bout topics..and in the meantime i did fetch some knowledge...i kno ableton very very well but far from in and out..same with others..
---
i seperated artist can cook all on his own...
but with other ppl we need language (theory)

 

Last edited: Dec 18, 2019

There's lot of different ways doing music.
I would say try for say 2 weeks only make music in realtime .
Gives a total different set of skills as opposed to snapping one note at a time waiting going back piecing in tiny bits over time .
Try to develop " realtime composing "
It's hard but will make you 100 times better .
Take a favorite song boil it down to the form then.
Practice composing in realtime on it .
( Genre won't matter )

 

@5teezo, I'd better be careful I haven't screwed up your break.

I described the book mentioned above as "quite a nice book"; perhaps I should clarify just for the sake of interesting discussion.

When and how is a music theory textbook useful?
Opinions?
How would you be careful when making recommendations?

Here's some woffle about that...

If someone (a music beginner) said to me "I want to learn how to make music"
then I would not recommend that book to that person.
Why not?
Because "learning how to make music" and "learning about music theory" are just not the same goals.
Of course they can be usefully connected goals, but they are absolutely not the same thing.

If they are beginners to "learning how to make music" I would put music theory quite low on my list of recommendations;
I would tell them that music theory is going to be wonderful a bit later on, and then get on with the far more fabulous business of learning how to actually make music.

Whereas, if someone said to me "I already have, or am developing, music skills, I'm already enjoying learning how to actually make music; but I'd like a book to help me understand what's going in within that music"
then I would recommend that theory book to that person.

But I would also advise them that what they will find in that book is a thorough, well written tour through a comprehensive set of music theory ideas (comprehensive not complete!). I would point out that there is almost no music in that book at all! and make sure they understood that point. I would ask them "are you comfortable with reading dry, musically-lifeless, presentations of abstract ideas?" and if yes then the book will serve them very very well.

I would add, that they might appreciate the way the author has deliberately avoided using classic music theory notation in his book. I regard that as a helpful choice - especially when the same author has written a separate companion book specifically on how to read classic music notation. So, now the choice is theirs "get into music notation or not; it's very useful, but they can explore music theory without it".

If reading brilliant but dry textbooks is not their preferred way to learn, then I would advise them to find introductions to the same ideas elsewhere. I'd point them towards well presented videos and advise them to watch the videos plus maybe also dipping into the text book to find the same ideas further discussed.

One of my favourite places to recommend for finding those nice introductory music theory videos is http://www.daveconservatoire.org
I've mentioned it in several places, e.g., https://audiosex.pro/posts/442282/
And I've applauded the way those video resources split 'learning music theory' and 'learning music notation' into separate (but optionally related) goals.

Sometimes, you could further fine-tune the recommendations based on what people are really trying to achieve. A big point is 'are they learning how to play an instrument?' If it's a chord-based instrument with keyboard or fretboard, then the sky's the limit. There are many thousands of beautiful resources out there that have combined mastering the instrument with using the instrument to explore music theory. Many do, and many do not, bother with classic music notation. For me, as soon as a chordal instrument is involved, the music theory discussion immediately goes off into a more specialised direction.

What about people who are not interested in learning to play an instrument?
Firstly, I would advise them that they are quite simply missing out on what is easily one of the very best and most rewarding aspects of music making; but if that's their choice then so be it. It is still 100% valid for them to say "I make great music just working with music software and I want to understand music theory better because it looks interesting and maybe it will help me"
In that case, I like the emergence of music theory text books that focus on exactly that scenario. I referred to one very nice example in this post.
https://audiosex.pro/posts/441099/

Notice how in that book, the practical vehicle for exploring music theory is the piano roll editor found in almost every DAW.
So, no music notation, no learning an instrument, just show the music theory using the piano roll.
Get's a big round of applause from me.

-----

I keep on saying "we're all spoilt for choice".
I personally like textbooks, but it's pretty clear that websites and youtube are (in many, but not all, ways) out-competing the textbook world, so I love what's available on websites and youtube.

For text books, the place where I located that "Music Theory_ From Beginner to Expert..." book
is pdfdrive dot com
That place has dozens of music theory textbooks.
Most (but certainly not all) of those theory books take the traditional approach of teaching theory via classic music notation (That's a pity - and some even make the error of confusing theory and notation, by regarding them as the same thing!)

Here's a small sample of stuff that I found on that site

• Music Theory_ From Beginner to Expert - The Ultimate Step-By-Step Guide to Understanding and Learning Music Theory Effortlessly
• How To Read Music_ For Beginners - A Simple and Effective Guide to Understanding and Reading Music with Ease
• Alfred's Essentials of Music Theory
• All about Music Theory_ A Fun and Simple Guide to Understanding Music
• Basic Music Theory
• Music Theory for the Music Professional
• Music Theory
• Practical Music Theory
• The Chord Scale Theory and Jazz Harmony
• The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory
• Understanding Basic Music Theory

What's my real recommendation?

"Figure out what 'you' want or need and enjoy being spoilt for choice in finding it"
(and pretty much everywhere is better than here )

Cheers

 

Last edited: Dec 19, 2019

Would you guys please make your inscriptions a bit shorter? It seems you're canvassing for leadership in AS's election but it doesn't work in this manner. You know we're living in tweet era. Everything should be short.

 

No.
(oops I just did)

 

Unfortunately today, people don't even spend time watching a p..n movie from the start till the end and fast forward it or watch just the compilations let alone reading.

 

Apparently it is becoming more commonplace for people to only read the synopsis and not bother watching the movie because it takes less time than getting the movie, then fast-forwarding through it.

 

Trying to improve my communication skills.
Should I join the modern Twitterverse - clearly it will help me.

Photographer Removes Phones From His Photos To Show How Terribly Addicted We’ve Become

The photographer was inspired by a chance encounter in a New York cafe. “Family sitting next to me at Illium café in Troy, NY is so disconnected from one another,” Pickersgill writes in his notes from that day. “Not much talking. Father and two daughters have their phones out. Mom doesn’t have one or chooses to leave it put away. She stares out the window, sad and alone in the company of her closest family. Dad looks up every so often to announce some obscure piece of info he found online.”

 

Last edited: Dec 19, 2019

Everyone wants the have the shortcuts to reach a goal but the nature, society and human learning mechanism don't work in that way. For enjoying living in harmony with other humans and nature, humans have to slow down their motions but the technology has been made to make everything faster. A very big challenge for humans. The faster motions , the less enjoyments.

 

The secrets of my toilet habits exposed. Oh the shame!

 

Hey Peeps.
I have only a few words of wisdom to add to this subject, based on my 50yrs of playing/teaching music. Take it for what it's worth, take it with a grain of salt, take it anyway you feel. Just be open minded. Hopefully i can say this simply enough so as not to deter those here that are still wondering if learning theory is worth the time/trouble.

I am a self taught musician. I have been a professional musician since my late teens (so about 40yrs). I learned 85% of my music theory over a 10yr period, from about 20yrs old to 30yrs old; the other 15% i had to get a degree in music to learn about -- but it was worth it; for me.
Back then we had no internet, so reading books and listening to/studying other musicians was all i could do. But it worked. Today, it's SO much easier to learn this stuff quicker - kids these days have way more FREE opportunities, and there's really no reason NOT to have a go at it. It's actually kind of fun; even if you don't plan on using it heavily in your musical artistic endeavors. ;)>

Where to start? What to learn?
This is easier than you'd think.
If it's emotions you're trying to learn how to express through music, then start by learning what *intervals* (just 2 notes!) create each type of emotion. Take your time, there's no rush and not a lot of them to learn. So don't panic ;)>

For example:
Major intervals [[root + M3]] = happy/content/pleasant :: movement
Minor [[root + m3 ]] = sad/disturbed/subdued :: at rest
Diminished [[root + b5]] = tension/scared/agitated :: excited/adrenaline/alert/hyper-sensitive
Augmented [[root + #5]] = curious/wonderment/suspension :: bewildered/confused/anticipation

These are just 2 notes creating these 'feelings' for us. Add to these some additional intervals (7,9,11,13 - i.e. compound intervals), and the feelings can become more specific/targeted and have a more direct impact on the listener; i.e. your musical intent can become more concise & clear to the listener. This leads to you having more tools to work with, a frees you up to be more creative/expressive.

Another simple way to create specific moods in music is through modes. Modes are nothing more than playing a certain scale starting from a different note; other than the root. But it's the intervals from one note to the next that create the mood; take Lydian, Phrygian & Locrian as the most blatant examples of this. BTW Steve Via LOVES the Lydian mode and has written a lot of his best material (IMHO) using it.

To break it down simply, at it's core, music structure is primarily compiled of stacked 3rds. i.e. C + E + G, C + Eb + Gb, etc. Harmony rules this domain. A simple Diad (2 note interval) is the smallest building block of harmony. A Traid is next with 3 notes and is made from 2 different Diads -- 1st note to 2nd note, and 2nd note to 3rd note. Get the picture? The more Diads we create/stack, the clearer the emotion created from the note combinations becomes -- like a Maj9 chord, or an altered dominant (think E7#9 - the Jimmy Hendrix chord from Purple Haze).

Ok i think i've rambled enough.
So to break it down, start by learning 2 note intervals. Understand what emotions they invoke in you. Then try combining 2, 3, 4 groups of them together (Maj 3rd + min 3rd, min 3rd + #5, etc); you'll come to learn that chords are created from using a combination of all of the 2 note intervals. Bear in mind though, that the more complex/convoluted a chord becomes (too many stacked intervals), the less clearly it can convey a specific emotion/mood/message.
Learn/play some modes, pick your favorite it doesn't really matter at this point. All you're trying to do is recognize the mood/feeling/emotion that modes can create for you. Use Google to find audio examples of songs written using specific modes; you'll train your ears better/quicker doing that. Some types of Pop music have been described as using specific modes in them, but Jazz material is usually the easiest type to hear very specific modal structure being used. Doesn't mean you have to like the genre... it's just a tool to help train your ears. ;)>

Anywho...
Is it going to take a long time to develop a clear understanding of this stuff....yeah, probably. Everyone is different though. Some of you might pick it up real naturally once you get a bit into it. Ya never know til ya try!
Is there any reason NOT to explore this aspect of creating music? No... none that i can think of, after spending 4 decades doing it. It's been an enjoyable, full-filling journey for me actually. No pressure! >

Been a slice!
L8R Peeps...

 

Well, you first wrote something coherent, but ending your argument by an insult certainly does diminish your credibility.

 

I admit I haven't been a great contributor to this topic at times, but there is now no doubt in my mind that arguing and belittling people can not in any way be described as enhancing the experience of community that audioz offers. We share, we build, we bond. What better way to describe music itself.

 

Sitting here in Spain having a coffee and reading the pearl of wisdom on a little sugar sachet and lo-and-behold: "Aprender música a través de la teoría tiene el mismo sentido que darse un beso por carta", roughly translated: "learning music through theory makes about as much sense as kissing by post". My feelings are similar to Louis Armstrong's when asked if he could read music: "yeah, but not enough to hurt me none"...

 

I love it , but it does weaken your argument to pick a god in man form as an example ? Lol

Every time I hear this solo, I have an experiance as if I'm hearing music for the first time . And for the first time in my life Joy is revealed.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1srw09ZAXH0Rgo7jFQLWXL



https://www.jazzadvice.com/six-jazz-improvisation-secrets-from-louis-armstrong/

When I first heard these songs it hit me that all all the production and engineering and mastering techniques in the world cannot fake musical genius

All the recording flaws of the medium of this 100 year old music vanish the moment Louis blows his trumpet.

 

Last edited: Dec 19, 2019

shouting to the wrong 2 ppl here...

 

A brilliant comment,
Id like to simply offer another wonderful free resource of a music theory course on video for free that will give you experiAnce of being in the classroom ( if you are thinking about going to school for music theory , here is a example of what you might expect ) or if you want the knowledge but are in financial difficulty .

( Note please continue on with this series in the YouTube side bar where you can go to next lesson 8 and further )

 

Lager said: ↑
Would you guys please make your inscriptions a bit shorter? It seems you're canvassing for leadership in AS's election but it doesn't work in this manner. You know we're living in tweet era. Everything should be short.

Picture Mr T.
" Play dah music Damm Fool!"

" Ya hit the white notes, then you hit the black notes "
An Excerpt from ( Mr. T's music training program



" I said play them damn notes"

Testimonials

" Mr Ts elegant music training program helped me see the importance of really living in the present moment with my improvisation ...."

-Scott from New Jersey.

" What did I tell you?....Play them damn notes ."


Megan from Ohio says ,

" ....before Mr T I was overindulging in nomenclature .
He really opened my eyes and my ears to the freedom involved in playing music."

{ Mr T ,
Can you help me ? I wanted to ask you about Rhythm changes Bridge where .......}


" No, no no no no ....you see them notes?.........
Hit em....."


{Excuse me, Mr T sir, I had this idea about taking the Cmajors #11 and then.........}

" What did I say?..... What did I say?
Stop!........now play them notes fool."

 

Last edited: Dec 19, 2019

Nothing worthwhile is achieved without some effort.

As you all were