Okay, if we're talking the big guns, ladies and gentlemen, Mr Wes Montgomery!

 

I can totally see how you see it. Two questions. Have you ever played in a band and have you ever seen this kind of music live? Because for me the two are linked. It was the same with me and techno back in 1990. Hated it! Went to a rave, got messed up and didn't listen to anything else for the next ten years. You need a visceral link to some, maybe all kinds of music. Not your fault if you can't connect.

 

It took me some years for it yo have but now movement in music without drums moves me the same as drums high energy drums .
The way it happened for me was trying to listen past the level of sound but deeper down to what was happening .
It took a while because I'm drummer longer than all other instruments .
So even chamber music movement with like strings hits me hard like a battery from beat.
I can't really speak for anyone else though it's just for me when I got into deep music history a new world opened up .

 

This changed my life.

 

If you study the jazz's history, you'd totally understand that it has been developed by wrong ears. Wrong ears can't distinguish the right notes. Its theory has lots of bugs but its practitioners never wanted to ameliorate them because they don't know the solutions.

 

You are talking crazy talk now , nobody believes that . That's the most ridiculous thing nobody ever heard of until you just fabricated it 10 seconds ago!

 

To clarify. When I asked if you've played in a band (it's becoming a rare thing these days) I wasn't implying that not doing so is a bad thing, but that if you have another four people around you and you play flawlessly and tight, there's a synergy that flows between each individual. When the song is over you look at each other and someone will say something like "has everybody got goosebumps?"
That feeling is why I can connect with the vibe coming from a great jazz ensemble. It's not just the music, it's the feeling of "oh Damn, this must be giving those guys chills" because I sort of transport myself there. I'm with them.

 

Dr: Yes Miss, I can confirm you have wrong ears. A career in jazz awaits you.

 

It's okay if you don't mix with it but the notes are correct it's the same theory Bach used and Beethoven used and Liszt used.
The only difference is in rhythmic and they expanded the harmony in just a few ways
( But it's the same theory .)

 

So a question for you The Bird or Coltrane?

 

But it wasn't just learning the history, was it? That understanding changed how you perceived the music, giving more depth and breadth to what you heard. Lyrics that are vague or general allow for varied interpretations and give the music (the music can be given) special personal connection. And some play on common themes like archetypes do that elicit similar feelings in lots of people..

And when it comes to music history it makes me think how a deeper understanding does not remove false illusion but reveals how the illusion is made real by the brain. Testable and verified ... corroborated by millions ..now billions of people. It isn't magic...it is real, and that gives me shivers to think of what we are, and what music is. Well, I knew it was real, leaning against the piano when I was little.
It only made me feel good then, with none of the deeper implications. I still get that feeling from a single note on a piano, but now my mind will also race to the how and why as well... Makes me think of something Feynman said about learning how a flower makes itself ...

I thought I was stuck with the music I listened to when i was a teen, but that changed over time.
As the theory goes, the music you like makes strong emotional connection at that formative time.
And thinking back I see ... confirmation bias! hahah but I think it really is true.

There are times open to deeper connection and attachments, but if you stick only with the familiar you may miss them.
So, I have a load of links, most from this place, and had to start organizing them.
I need to start a new MusicBee library with only the unheard stuff.
When I get shivers from "Koko" I will be sending you a PM

 

It's a hard one for me but def in the end yardbird Parker .just a genius.
Of course Coltrane godly .
Very close though ( but love them different ways )
Love Coltrane .

 

I saw this tour. Mind was officially blown. If these guys are playing wrong notes, why are they all playing the same wrong notes? Oh! and have you ever heard anything quite like what's going on at the 4 minute mark? Everybody on percussion, but still on their own instrument.

 

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Well the way that it had happened to me was I wAs fiercly dedicated to recent genres , except a few things but I made up my mind I was through going to go throw whole history of music I did a 2 year independent research project ( wanted to dedicate to music in full )
But what happened is I found out no matter the time period of all history at any time you select I there was music as good as my fav music at the time. So that completely changed me such a deep level . Also you take a 80 year old but studying them their world when they were 20 their just people that changed me us are not whole lot diff then people our age 300 years ago .
These aspects of music history and musicology transformed me.
( It wasn't great to be transformed at first I felt disoriented but then over time music is such larger wider thing than ever before .)

 

After I did the independent research project , it impacted me so much I switched to just working part time for 5 more years to break down the separate music languages throughout history used in the music because I wanted to know how it worked. ( At the end of the 5 years I couldn't stop so I just continued with that but like 3 hours a day to fit full time work again .( Recording artists giving lessons for work so I could continue my studies and now it's been 10 years and I still do couple hours of study a day also brushing up on what I covered in the beginning .
So my lifestyle is basically a student of music is how I feel about it . ( Even though I teach things a lot )

 

To describe it in a visual way .( The changes that have happened to my hearing during that time)
Modern music to me now sounds like a very sharp detailed hi res photograph .( Nothing wrong there)
But chamber music and jazz ( or just fully harmonic it can be modern made but like 7 note chords and above ) instead of a flat photograph. It's hographic
Like 3d like VR or a hologram with depth .
( Say it's an old recording though it's a 3d hologram that's a bit cloudy and fuzzy but still 3d with depth compared to a flat photograph image . ( Even though modern mastering gives you hd clarity .
I'm wondering if anyone else has experiances it that way also.

 

Yes, I do. It's three dimensional plus it's colors. Well, not exactly colors, shades of mood. Also shapes. Some tones are silk and some are thick rope. Some are glass. After a five year stint as a keyboard player and songwriter for my band, I realised during a lengthy stay in the studio that I instinctively knew what everyone should be playing. So, I became a producer. In the old sense. The George Martin Beatle sense. Now when I hear music I can hear every instrument and can evaluate it's importance to the song immediately. I've had 40 years of practice so it's not something that developed overnight. I am still pushing myself to improve this ability and it has led me to listening to as many Requiem Masses as I can find. Am I odd? I bloody well hope so!

 

unlike language, music theory comes naturally. you can hear when things work and when they dont. if it sounds good then it is good.
if you do not go out of your way to learn theory you will end up learning at least some of it anyway, while writing music.

i find people who actively follow music theory ultimately end up writing predictable music. some people want predictable music, which is fine, but personally i like chaotic, unpredictable music.