I'd be happy to do a brain swap with you. I guarantee mine is in a worse state than yours after me having to write some of this stuff.

 

It's so funny when I compare my threads
" Understanding substitutions in Jazz "
( For instance .)
And then compare to your writing style ,
" Your version " of " information"
And " demonstrating "
Lolololololololololol
Thank you for embarrassing yourself again my friend.
This thread really has a great sketch comedy feel now with your clown religion.lol

In a serious note though.
For me to point out each misunderstanding and then explain " why" it is a misunderstanding is not only going to take up more than you wrote,
People reading it already know because they are not clowns . They read it see your misunderstandings turn into anger and they witness a new sketch comedy is born.

 

Last edited: Dec 16, 2019

@MMJ2017 and @Ad Heesive

Just an observation - The moment any human being insults another, anything valid they may have to say after that point is lost and that is human nature.

I could do what I have observed on only this thread and click something or reported but WHY???? You are both adults with skills to offer people.

PLEASE act like it. This is beneath BOTH of you.

 

What's your point ?
Do you really need it spelled out more clearly for you?
If you cover the instrument with a chord then you can build any Voicings you want where the top note of the voicing Is the melody the bottom note is the bass . You have a whole melody connected with harmony and it all represents the 1 chord .
( Whatever function it happens to be at the time .)
Once you understand that process you can add embellishments. You can create a more detailed version in a progression ( same thing but with including voice leading from one chord to the next .
Them further expand the process to create a whole song section.
This just the beginning.
Because if you expand further into poly tonality you are doing same thing again in the same space with a different chord .
So each new level of detail and complexity you can continue to expand the process .
Does that make more sense now ?

( The reason why you expand to all octaves?
Per chord.

 

Your posts do indicate someone smart enough to consider nuanced arguments.
So, that is indeed very welcome.

Have you ever reflected on the following cognitive bias.
The one where virtue-signalling moral-high-ground neutrality ends up being exposed as morally bankrupt.

and have you simultaneously reflected on the fact that none of us are immune to these biases.
(which does of course include yourself)

Here's an example to think about, in a real context nothing like the petty squabbles in this forum.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/02/27/centrism-moderation-no-thanks/

An extract...
"Calls for moderation and civility, combined with denouncing both sides as too extreme, are common in moments of moral and political crisis. But they are not apolitical. They take the focus away from injustice and put it instead on the behavior of those protesting it. This allows critics to adopt a moral high ground as the civil, reasonable ones without ever publicly taking sides in the debate. But as our own past has shown, neutrality in times of moral and political crisis is anything but neutral."

 

I like you ad heesive.
A true comedy artist also.:D

 

@Ad Heesive and @MMJ2017
Yes, I can post an informed opinion. To this point, I have avoided it.

Everything discussed that I have read also depends on what is happening at the time if improvised and if written, by what the composer intends and how good the musicians are.

As a TINY example of situations: Retrograde inversions in double counterpoint, oblique motion, chromatic planing, antiphonal musical responses, consequent to antisequent responses, consilient musical characteristics, the emancipation of dissonance, leitmotifs, sideslipping, synthetic harmony, through-composition and much more.
If you both cannot work out I know a little it does not matter - I was speaking as someone viewing this thread out of interest saddened by two people that have knowledge letting their egos affect the value of what they have to impart.

I think you both need to be kinder to each other and stop taunting. With that, I am done posting.

 

5teezo,

If you take a chord and then think of it in these voicings .

Drop2, Drop3, Drop2&4

Next cover the entire instrument in each of those Voicings .
Then combine that information in your mind .
Now you use that information to create any type of voicings you want . ( Spread out or closed in )
You'll find you can create endless melody attached to a harmony ( add your rhythm of choice ).
All of what you created is a representation of that initial chord and the function it is working in.
( Unless you are making modal music then your stacking thinking about unification .)
Unless your thinking about polytonality which means you might do say thing again in same location adding the same chord half step up combining the whole instrument covered in those combined Voicings of the 2 chords )
Then you add embellishments to taste .
You add scale fragments to taste for your melodies .you can even use all same information to do orchestra arrangement where each monophonic melody stacks against another to add up to be the harmony .
Then when you are comfortable.
You go from just that 1 chord to 2 chords.
( Maybe initial chord then it's dominant chord )
Then follow all the same processes .
Then you do the same with a full progression .
Then you do the same with a entire song section form.

 

I like this comment thank you .
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter .
I think it would be enjoyable to speak with you further on your ideas my friend.
I agreed with you about ad heesive.
I'm trying figure out a way to get " them" to communicate more normal with these values in mind.
Honor
Integrity
Respect
Dignity
I don't think badly about anyone here .
I enjoy people's different perspectives .
Based on your comment , it's clear to me that you do know what you are talking about and have a valid view.

 

It works both ways.
Please remember that everyone has something to offer.
I don't think badly about anyone here. I was saying that you both insulted each other and that is not good, regardless of who started it, because we are all adults.

I enjoy people's different perspectives even when I do not agree with them. Forcing anyone to a point of view rarely works - we see that all too often in politics.
Also when we point and we have all been guilty of that; whatever we say after that gets lost. So acknowledgement is the true key is all I suggest.
I can see you both have done time in music and have a LOT to offer everyone here.

The world is a big place and so is the forum by the look of it.
There is more than enough room for both of you.

 

Thank you I agree with you on that.
In the spirit of this comment .
Ad heesive are you willing to speak normally without insult adjectives describing an area in which you have a misunderstanding or disagreement where you just speak about the information component and not speak about people involved?

Thank you my friend.

I have included an example if what I am asking for .
( It's an example of myself just speaking About information not about people )









{
{
To understand substitutions in Jazz ,
We first want to think about our 3 functions in tonal music .
Tonic/ Subdominant/ Dominant

Our substitutions will exist in 1 of these 3 categories .
Tonic is relaxed or still.
Subdominant is little tense or some motion.
Dominant is very tense or lots of motion far from home.

Any substitution , will exist in one of these functions. But to understand how that works
We have to look first at our Diatonic key to begin.

Let's look at the key of C major A relative minor first.
CDEFGABC

1.CEGB
2.DFAC
3EGBD
4.FACE
5GBDF
6.ACEG
7BDFA.

Now, 7 chords in the key which fit in 3 functions or categories.

Tonic
1.CEGB Cmaj ( but used C6 (CEGA
3.EGBD Emin7
6.ACEG Amin7

These are the Diatonic tonic substitutions .
We can use any of these 3 chords in place of each other in the I spot as substitutions .

Subdominant
2.DFAC ( Dminor7
4.FACE (Fmajor7 this is when we use a major7

These are the Diatonic Subdominant chords which can be swapped out for each other .

Dominant
5.GBDF G7
7.BDFA Bhalf Dim

These are the Diatonic Dominant chords substitution.

This covers the 7 chords in the key.

Before we get to see non Diatonic substitutions for this key in these 3 categories, we need to see the structure of chords progressions which the Diatonic chords make sense in .
( Because it is these structure of the progressions with the 3 functions turned into chord Progressions which serves as a blueprint for non Diatonic substitutions )


{,....... From the thread " understanding substitutions in Jazz in education section.


Ad heesive please make a equivilent pure information version of your point of view.

 

One of the most important aspects of music from my perspective is improvisation .
( Composing music in realtime.)
This requires combining all your music abilities and then expressing yourself in the moment over the form . Developing yourself in this area of improvisation Is also a great way to improve your composing skills and to connect what your feeling inside into music on the outside .

If you have not really done this much before here are a couple peices of information that can really help you .

There are 3 chord shapes that can represent all chords and be used to Substitution or superimposition.

1. Major6
( This shape works over a Major7 or Minor7
2.Minor6
( This shape works over a Min7b5 or Minor6
3.Diminished 7th
( This shape works over a Dominant chord.

By using these 3 shapes or patterns
( Each one cover the whole instrument in all octaves )
You can build up any melody or harmony you want .
It's very helpful when composing in realtime .

Let's look at these 3 shapes a bit more .

C6 Cmajor6 CEGA
This works over a Cmajor7 or Amin7 chord.
In it's standard use.
We can see another use easily if we raise each note by a semitone .
C#6 C#major6 C#FG#A#
In this instance , we are thinking of G7 dominant chord .
The C# is b5th, F is 7th, G# is b9, A# is #9

So C#major6 works great over Gdominant7 .
And that means shifting everything back down a semitone where we began .
C6 CEGA works great over a F#7 dominant .

Next up let's look

The Minor6.

Dmin6 DFAB
Notice how Dmin6 is also Bmin7b5 BDFA
So this shape naturally works over both of these chords. Also If we look at G7 dominant again
Dmin6 DFAB is the 5th 7th 9th and 3rd of G7.

Lastly let's look at our Diminished7th

BDFG# , we can see right away what a dim7 actually is.
It is 4 dominant chords in 1 shape .

BbDFAb ( Bb7 b9 no root
C#FG#B ( C#7 b9 no root
EG#BD ( E7 b9 no root
GBDF ( G7 b9 no root

What this means is that with only 3 diminished7
Chords you have all 12 dominant chords
(In every location on the instrument )

These 3 patterns.
1.Major6
2.Minor6
3.Diminished7

Give you a way to play anything you want to on any location of the instrument .

They are 1 set of tools to take into consideration if and when you want to improvise .
( Compose music in realtime )

How much have you got involved with composing in realtime ?
Please let me know what you think and your approach or your thoughts on composing in realtime.

 

My hat is off to Ad heesive for taking the time to write all of that I agree whole heartedly with it I was unaware of the chord analysis thread for the song Fade In but if ever evidence was needed to prove your point it was there,it would be laughable if I didn't believe that mental illness is the issue.The old saying "you shouldn't mock the afflicted" comes to mind maybe pity is the best response to delusion.Alas I think it will be to no avail but kudos for trying.

 

Ad heesive ,
I just looked through your PDF file .
There's nothing going on the whole time.
It's just you saying things .
There's no information except when you take clips of other peoples things out of context.
I can't for the life of me understand what that off is about or what it attempts to accomplish .
It's just you calling me ugly and dumb dumb.
Then a couple portions where you misunderstood something call me names more then take a portion of someone else's education material out of context from where they had it.
And somehow you believe it connects to something with me and you or here?
You say things like I have had hundreds people complain about me?
5 trolls in 3 years.out of 200,000 views on all my threads.
Ad heesive ,
You just built up several misunderstandings .
Then got made about what you misunderstood.

How arrogant is it to create an entire storyline in your thoughts about why I should post information
In that bizzarre PDF type of layout and structure.
Your sense of prioritization is not strong IMHO.
And lastly the only point that I could partially get out of all that is you believe I should make my content in such a way where people must learn to read sheet music before they get any value?
That wouldn't help anyone though.( Maybe tiny percentage )
I truly looked through your PDF with the most open mind about what is bothering you or what point you have
My conclusion is you have a small picture view where soon as something does not fit your assptions you get angry.
All of that .
You could have instead asked.
" Hey MMJ ,
Why do you present information in such a way to symbolically represent it without sheet music."
I would have answered you
" AD HEESIVE ,
OH it's just so anyone reading it get value and use the demonstrated information "

That's what this is all about ?
You have this whole invented character with my name attached .where all the details are just invented in your imagination.
You don't care to make a distinction between fantasy and reality .

I made a whole thread years ago that gives the information on how to solve this psychological issue.
" What is real or not?"
In the forum search read through .
It discusses how a human being has to differentiate between reality and made up thoughts .

If right now I invented in imagination 50 thoughts about you Ad heesive.
What would be the probability that it would match with the real person who exists ?

Now I ask you to think about this.
All the things you are making up about me in your thoughts .
What is the probability that it would match to the real mmj which exists ?

It's troubling that , you would go through and experiAnce all that and be satisfied instead of asking questions to get answers from the real human being which no have no information about their a stranger to you .( Yet you have this whole storyline invented .)
Lastly to consider " prioritization "
This means create in your thoughts a list where the most important things are at the top
This goes into consideration.
Once we so this .
Why don't mmj post music theory in such a way that alienates 90 percent of people?
The answer is what ad heesive?
That it would make no sense to post information to help people .if it cannot actually help anyone !

 

Yes it not surprising that you would agree with your other account ad heesive
Lol
Do you really want me to or need me to respond to that whole song " fade in" issue misunderstanding of yours ad heesive?

Really?
You need me to demonstrate it?
The information is all in my comment box from back then.

Hint there's no chord analysis .
Listen to the song it's all empty space .
You can just hear the thing that's being played there's no need to write what is played you can literally hear it. Just play the song and hear what is being played.
What would make you think me or anyone needed to put in text what anyone can hear by hitting the play button.

I wrote way back then the underneath strucuture from which the things played came from themselves .
There's even enough information there in what I wrote to add to it write a bridge with the minor cadence etc.
I can't believe you thought that .lol
You can orchestrate that song with the structure I laid out .

Why would I write out what's played for a song?

What like how people make guitar tablature ?
I have never done that and will never do it.
Because that tells you nothing ( if you do t already hear what's being played )
It don't help anyone
Just to give them tablature or transcriptions 9f that type.
What helps them is give them information related to how songs are built .
Not what is played in a particular song

If your going to show the information about the structure where something comes .

You don't need to shown what is played then show where it comes from also .

I'm that instance its not so dense that you can't just hear it directly .
I showed the structure underneath for which the specific played things came from .

Because know that information means you can fully develop the song ( that one wasn't developed )
That's the point.
( Or if you want to orchestrate a song)
Develop more sections.
The fact that I have to explain all this
When I actually demonstrated in 1 tiny line of a comment box back then is sad.

I gave the viewer a way to play over it.
Would you rather have that for a song or
Write out what your already hearing? Lol
( Don't you hear what notes are there when music 8d playing? We are hearing what was played.
Lol.
Your funny.



Ad heesive this thing with your fake accounts is getting old im close to just ignore button you and your fake accounts .
I'm trying give you a chance just act like a normal person.

 

Last edited: Dec 16, 2019

Why you are adressing me? It's not like I doubt music theory. It's just so tiresome to read what has been said or sometimes proclaimed here to be evident (when it was just post-factual) @decksound and how it has been presented: endless monologs of soduku-like building blocks of music in text. That's exctly the form nobody likes music theory to be presented in and I doubt it's helpful to those who are trying to understand it. @MMJ2017

 

Addressing you ?.
What do you mean?
The whole thing about what's helpful we can just click through the theory threads in education and then if you look in the right hand side how much traffic it gets .
I just mean there's a way to find out information about how threads have done views they have gotten etc.
Click on the forum then education
Then look for my threads ,
In the right hand side look at the numbers then compare it to the numbers of other threads
It will give you information about logistics and demographic .
It's just weird to say you dont think something helps people just click through the forum and see how things did .

 

Last edited: Dec 16, 2019

Why are you spending time on it?

 

Reply #288 was directly adressing me, or not?

 

Come on man. Would you say that the most viewed hollywood blockbusters are the ones that bring the most value to the movie scene ?
That any yt video-clip viewed a billion time is the equivalent to a good quality music certificate ?
Those numbers just say that the thread title attracts clicks, it doesn't say that your lessons are appreciated or helpfull (not that they are not). Also any thread that gets heated is bound to attract views, you actually have an "interest" in those dramas.
What would say that those lessons are a plus for the readers, would be a high number of positive comments by different viewers of those threads. Or even a high number of "likes" and "love it" by different people, on different comments of yours. Or even a number of followers that matches your high number of views, even in a fraction of it, you have 19 followers.
When you name threads like "the secrets of music" or "how to never have writter block", you're bound to have views. It says absolutely nothing about the quality of the content.
Again. Not that the content sucks. But the number argument is moot.