What's your philosophy regarding " Music theory?"

Discussion in 'Education' started by MMJ2017, Dec 10, 2019.

?

Is Music theory ( how music works) worth learning in your opinion?

  1. Yes

    80.3%
  2. No

    6.0%
  3. Possibly

    10.3%
  4. Whatchoo mean? ( No such thing as how music works ) Foo.

    3.4%
  1. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1,603
    The goal of learning your spoken language is NOT to memorize the dictionary right?

    The reason we learn our spoken language is to communicate " meaning" ," originality", "express ideas", connect to other people .

    How well can we do these things with our spoken language IF we are only using words which we don't understand what they mean?
    What they represent ?

    So even though the " point" of using and having our spoken language is NOT to memorize large dictionary and thesaurus encyclopedias.

    We Still have to understand what these words represent what they mean and what context .

    ( How often do you speak sentences where you are not sure what the words you are saying mean?)

    Music is the same way .
    The type of " music theory" I am talking about here is the patterns in music that fit together like puzzle peices . The knowledge of how music itself works to create the types of feelings and emotions you want in the listener.
    Learning the music theory like the information that I share in my threads , is only about understanding music's foundation of how music works .
    The whole point of it is to study it, memorize it get it so familiar and deep into the subconscious that you can use it with your instincts in real life .
    Learning this music theory gets you to the starting line not the finish line .
    You want to understand the patterns in music what they accomplish and most importantly what they sound like .
    Yes it seems like hard work to learn it , and it can seem like a lot of investment for what ends up being a pretty small aspect of music in total.
    But what you get by learning it ( what it sounds like and how to use it besides the names of things ) is taking yourself to a much higher skill level . Just as with a young person learning enough about meaning if words to begin speaking in meaningful way ( as opposed to a toddler or baby who is saying words but does not really know what they mean yet )
    If you track a person progress with learning their spoken language , you can see as the years go by they get more advanced and eventually at knowing the language at a high level . ( Say college literature level)
    The person is able to communicate much more articulate and precise what is inside of their inner mind experiAnce.
    Music is the same way .
    To know and understand how music works the patterns in it how they snap together to create things gives you a way to communicate what is inside you.
    Music theory ( of this type )
    Is pretty advanced .( Although no more than what you are already used to with your spoken language )
    It takes time and dedication to memorize it learn it deeply and understand the way it all sounds.
    And this then puts you are the starting line not the finish line.
    But this is the starting line of being able to make music the same wAy you experiAnce thinking and speaking sentences .
    ( Which is to say seemingly effortless after a while ,with great clarity and meaning communicated. Being able to write 30 seconds of music in 30 seconds of time ( composing in realtime , instead of composing 1 song in 1 week or month or 6 months.)
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  2.  
  3. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1,603
    Imagine this phrase,

    " Hello my friend, I am feeling great.How are you doing today ?"

    Spoken by 50 people of all ages from every demographic .
    ( Also speaking it sincerely .)

    Each one a different sounding voice in timbre and sound signature .

    Does it change the MEANING of what was said ?
    ( Just because each individuals voice sounds different ?)
    No , it has no impact on the very thing that it's meant to accomplish . To communicate and interact with the person you are speaking to .

    Music is the same way .
    If you take the melody for the universal song
    " Happy birthday "
    And then play this melody on every single instrument that exists .
    Whether synthesizer, trumpet, bassoon, flute, violin, piano, guitar , human voice, electric bass, saxophone, French horn etc..
    No matter what instrument you use.
    " Happy birthday" comes across the same to you .
    ( It's identity and impact on you )
    Just like 500 different people saying the same sentence ( and saying it sincerely to you )
    Impacts you on the " meaning" level the same .

    What does this really mean though in our modern age with music?

    It is common nowadays to focus on superficial aspects of sound And music , more than the deep important aspects of music .

    Think about how .nuch time and energy is focused on the timbre of an instrument , what octave the note is in . The way things sound.
    Think about how much is spent on the mixing production engineering and mastering .
    These impact the superficial level.
    Which is just the way things sound .
    All this effort on those things and yet how much effort and time was spent on the deep meaningful levels of the music ?
    Developing the buildings cement foundation of the music theory level that everything will stand on?
    How much time was spent on going through every possibility for a Melody before selecting one ?
    Or the chords ? Every possible bass line ?

    Imagine if you met a person that had the strategy of treating their spoken language where the most important thing was the timbre of their voice?
    Which note each word was how clear they were speaking .however they only used words they didn't know what they mean or how to use them.
    They said the same exact sentence 4 times in a row , before moving to the next sentence .
    Then repeating this new sentence identically 4 times in a row .
    What would you think about this person?
    That they were nuts?
    They needed to be in a nut Ward?
    That they are missing the whole point of what the spoken language can possibly accomplish ?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • List
  4. Von_Steyr

    Von_Steyr Guest

    "the reason we learn our spoken language is to communicate " meaning" ," originality", "express ideas", connect to other people ."

    Or to bore others to death with endless blabber.
     
    • Winner x 8
    • Like x 5
    • Agree x 3
    • Funny x 3
    • Dislike x 1
    • Interesting x 1
    • Love it! x 1
    • Useful x 1
    • Creative x 1
    • Nasty x 1
    • List
  5. timer

    timer Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    106
    I can assure you I didn't use any grammar books or dictionaries when I learned my first language.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • List
  6. Cav Emp

    Cav Emp Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Messages:
    2,037
    Likes Received:
    1,671
    I dragged my feet for years about learning music theory. Only started having anything you could reasonably call a decent understanding a few months ago

    Even if only for the sake of having confidence that you know what you are doing (and that is definitely NOT the only reason. but for the sake of argument...) it's well worth learning. The problem is that it's intimidating to jump into and just so ridiculously encumbered with jargon. If you're some regular pleb trying to self-teach like I am, you gotta pull on your tryhard pants to get anywhere with it tbh

    There were lots of times where I'd play out some melody and think to myself, that sounds kinda cool, but there are three adjacent notes there. That's not a major or minor scale. Is this "wrong", or something? Nope. Just a blues scale or something. I could have saved myself a lot of second guessing if I'd bothered learning more theory sooner
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  7. farao

    farao Rock Star

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    379
    Let me guess, you are more proficent when it comes to getting your feelings across when speaking rather than playing an instrument? If so, why would you say that is?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  8. lbnv

    lbnv Kapellmeister

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    50
    Yes, your parents, grand parents, teachers, mates etc. corrected you many, many times. Almost infinitely. And now your speech conforms to grammars and dictionnaries. More or less.

    In the speech communication all is simple. You have been understood by others or you haven't. Very good training for your grammar and your dictionnary. Real time training. And it was your survival.

    Don't forget, the language is way more important for our surviving than the music is. We all have to speak. If somebody can't it's a problem. The music is a different thing. Many people are able to listen to the music but it's just a "pleasant environmental noise" for them. It's like listening to the timbre of a voice without understanding anything. And they aren't able to "speak". To start "speaking" you need a bit more. You have to distinguish elements which the music consists of, produce them, organize them etc. Without the "theory" it's impossible.

    You may think that the theory isn't important and you don't use it at all. But this doesn't mean you really don't use it. :yes:
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  9. Fudsey Plange

    Fudsey Plange Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,618
    Likes Received:
    1,214
    Location:
    Fuqnose
    Theory of car mechanics. Worth learning?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1,603
    How are you using words in a way that you understand , and that others understand IF you never found out what words mean?
    ( Oh, that's not what your comment is saying regarding the reading the dictionary )
    Same thing with me describing the dictionary .
    Music theory isn't the words describing things about music .
    Music theory is the sounds and patterns that the words are describing .

    CEGB Cmaj7 CEGA Cmaj6 F#min7b5 F#ACE
    ACEF# Amin6 ACEG# Aminmaj

    The music theory isn't the words or letters .
    The music theory is the sounds and patterns themselves being talked about .


    CEGB Cmaj7 CEGA Cmaj6 F#min7b5 F#ACE
    ACEF# Amin6 ACEG# Aminmaj

    This group of sounds are like how a topic is in a conversation.
    They all represent the same thing , you can use ANY of these sounds to accomplish the same thing .
    ( Your just going to decide based on which suits the exact emotion you want to create )
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  11. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1,603
    Are you not much of a thinker? ............
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • List
  12. mr.personality

    mr.personality Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    29
    The average muso who wants to write their own tunes, at least the basics should be understood and the basics are not hard to learn or understand. No need to be getting a phd in theory unless that's your thing of course. My world didn't open up till I got some knowledge and I've regretted decades of being a 'hunt and peck' guitar player, lol
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  13. EddieXx

    EddieXx Rock Star

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2015
    Messages:
    686
    Likes Received:
    367
    some people fly intellectually light, but roar very loud
     
  14. boogiewoogie

    boogiewoogie Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    122
    I never learned it, at least not properly. I simply play stuff until it sounds good, then I record it, if it sounds bad, I delete it :)

    I usually make music this way "freestyle" going by instinct. I made a few by following "rules" and certain "proper" chord progressions, but then some told me it sounded robotic, and artificial. Not organic. So yeah.

    Of course it helps to know some, but blindly following "the rules", is no good.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  15. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1,603
    Check this out
     
  16. farao

    farao Rock Star

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    379
    Awesome that so many here see the value of music theory. Makes me think even more of our great music forums than before. I think we might be a valuable resource for people learning music theory if anyone starting out would like to ask some questions and learn.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  17. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1,603
    Deez, ears ringinin B.
    ( Check the pockets though....)
    Cheebah?
     
  18. farao

    farao Rock Star

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    379
    Maybe you could stop stirring things up like a troll with rude comments without even touching on the subject. I think it might help.
     
  19. Sylenth.Will.Fall

    Sylenth.Will.Fall Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    978
    My favourite musical quote of all time was by the legendary Eric Morecome, following his extremely poor piano playing led by orchestral leader Andre Previn.


    I am playing all the RIGHT notes, just not necessarily in the right order!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  20. farao

    farao Rock Star

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    379
    I am opposed to closing a perfectly legit topic because of trolling. I did report your trolling behaviour though, so you can’t just keep going on being rude without touching on the subject of the topic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  21. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1,603
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - What's philosophy regarding Forum Date
What's your favorite software to create beats? Software Jan 17, 2020
what's your opinion on patreon.com Lounge Dec 6, 2019
What's the best library for string runs? Working with Sound Nov 22, 2019
What's that orchestral sound? Link below Instruments Nov 2, 2019
What's on your 2Bus/Mixbus (Late 2019 Edition) Working with Sound Sep 20, 2019
Loading...