What's The Best Way to Learn to Play Chords? (Piano)

Discussion in 'Education' started by user1293435134, Aug 24, 2021.

  1. user1293435134

    user1293435134 Kapellmeister

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    EDIT: The end goal I have is to be able to improvise chord progressions on the keyboard.

    I'm self-taught on the keyboard, evidently. I just finished learning the general scales - major and 3 minors (natural, harmonic and melodic). Not any of the special scales like blues and those ionian modes like Phrygian and Lydian that aren't commonly used... in contemporary/ pop. Now I'd like to learn chords.

    I must start with triads I assume and then go on to different voicings and extended chords. But I'm wondering what makes more sense. Should I learn by memorising which chords are in each scale? e.g. C major - C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim triads. Should I do a run of all those chords going up the scale and going down? In a similar way to how one would learn scales (running up and down the scale in notes until one has memorised them).

    Or

    Should I rather learn the triad chords not by scale but instead by whether they're major or minor? E.g. I do a run of all major chords from A to G# forwards and backwards until they're memorised, then do the same for minor chords A to G#, G# back to A?

    A
    A# / Bb
    B / Cb
    C / B#
    C# / Db
    D
    D# / Eb
    E / Fb
    F / E#
    F# / Gb
    G
    G# / Ab

    Anyone have a better approach?
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
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  3. Tinx

    Tinx Noisemaker

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    There's some great piano tutorials on the sister site that cover music theory, in the mean time this should help you out, best of luck on your musical journey.


    upload_2021-8-24_17-54-52.jpeg
     
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  4. user1293435134

    user1293435134 Kapellmeister

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    Thanks for contributing, but I already understand chords from both the theory side and non-theory side (numerically). I actually recently posted the first 2 tracks I made on here. So I'm way past understanding basic chords. I click in notes to make chords in my DAW when making music. This post is about learning to play them on the keyboard not about understanding them. The end goal is, I'd like to be able to create progressions by playing them rather than me clicking in random notes until I hear something good.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  5. DoubleSharp

    DoubleSharp Platinum Record

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    Harmonise the notes of a diatonic scale with I, IV and V chords.

    EG In C.
    Chords
    C G C F C F G C
    Lowest note of chord thru major scale.
    C D E F G A B C
    Inversion
    R 2 1 R 2 1 1 R

    Make sure the fingerings are correct. RH - all are 1-3-5 except 1st inversions are 1-2-5. ...I think.

    The relative minor is exactly the same physically, just starting from A. Also worth trying from D for Dorian.

    I'm stll beginner but I think also avoid the thumb on accidentals.

    EDIT - C F and G are all the Major. A D E are all the minor. The modes will mix them up a bit.
     
  6. user1293435134

    user1293435134 Kapellmeister

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    I'm not exactly clear on what you're suggesting do you mean I should practice I > IV > V progressions? After that you've lost me. And I've never encountered the "R 2 1 R 2 1 1 R" notation before. Please explain I am a beginner.
     
  7. Zenarcist

    Zenarcist Audiosexual

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    Get Scaler 2 & ChordPulse, and spend the time saved learning how to write killer melodies.

    PS ignore this advice if you want to become a concert pianist!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
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  8. Ŧยχøя

    Ŧยχøя Audiosexual

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    Practice playing actual Music,
    either playing diatonic chord types in a given tonality..

    Like, choose a Tonality, choose a Style and rhythm/Time Signature,
    and then just try to make chord progressions in that context..
    (later you can add melodic improvisations with your right hand)

    Or practice interpreting jazz Standards from a Real/Fake book, a Bossanova Realbook,
    or in whatever other style, there's real/fake books in many different styles..

    Jazz uses very Decorated or Altered chords, so it will help you get familiarized with it,
    same goes for Bossa, which is very accessible and easy to play, but very Sophisticated in its use of harmony..
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
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  9. user1293435134

    user1293435134 Kapellmeister

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    Already got Scaler, but I'll definitely check out ChordPulse. You're probably right I should prioritise getting better at composing music over learning to play the keyboard. The whole reason I'm learning to play is because I thought learning could make me better at making tracks. Thanks!

    I do learn some chords from some songs every now and then. I can play a little Ahmad Jamal chords. The thing is learning to play other people's songs so far has not helped me at all to learn to make my own progressions. I also read somewhere that learning to play people's songs doesn't help with improvisation on the piano. Supposedly all those apps like Melodics and Synthesia don't improve keyboard improvisation skills just performance skills. Also I can't read or write music which means I have to learn by seeing someone else play or ear. This means I cannot get into real Jazz I assume.

    I've never heard of jazz real/fake books I'll look into it, thanks!
     
  10. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    You don't need role models, you don't need to act out, you don't have to read books.
    You do not have to or should not be or become a copy of the other person.

    It is enough if you can finger all the chords and then play them for about 1 hour every day.
    Have fun with it - if you were supposed to have become a pianist - you would have started as a child.

    In the past there were no computers and digital audio workstations, so you had
    to choose an instrument. Today there are so many tools and virtual instruments.

    Play an instrument / VSTi that you enjoy and when it gets boring play another virtual instrument. So playing on the
    keyboard is fun and that drives you forward, you will automatically get better and better and find your own style
    and rhythm. Above all, practice fingerings / chords / changes that are difficult, but do not practice excessively.

    You will then develop into your own musical personality.
    It takes about 9 years to master an instrument perfectly. Longer or shorter depending on talent and time invested.
     
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  11. user1293435134

    user1293435134 Kapellmeister

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    Thank you for your advice on this. I'll just practice the chords as you said so I can get used to the fingerings and learn chord changes. I don't even have the free time to practice excessively. :)
     
  12. DoubleSharp

    DoubleSharp Platinum Record

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    So this is my own made up notation for trying communicate inversions. Though others probs use it as well. There are other ways of expressing this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figured_bass Or you could use slash chords.

    (Notes of chord. Low to high.)
    R = Root Inversion = R-3-5
    CEG

    1 = 1st Inversion = 3-5-1
    EGC

    2 = 2nd inversions = 5-1-3
    GCE

    Practice moving between each inversion of the chords needed if your hands are still finding their way.

    RE: The excersise

    See this as a table. Each column is a single bar.

    Chords - edit - think as this as an 8 bar progression.
    C G C F C F G C
    Lowest note of chord thru major scale.
    C D E F G A B C
    Inversion - order of notes in chord. - see above
    R 2 1 R 2 1 1 R

    So the lowest note is moving through each note of the C Major scale. In the RH this will always be played with the thumb. The notes above make up either a I IV or V chord. I find it's a good way of learning Diatonic harmony and giving hands a warmup.

    It's really handy for learning new keys and it's really easy to find variations on this idea. IE put the Scale, CDEFGABC on the top, in my example they're on the bottom.


    EDIT - you can practice this ascending and descending.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  13. DoubleSharp

    DoubleSharp Platinum Record

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    Figured bass is more complicated, it reads like it also helps define a particular voicing. Nevertheless, hopefully you get the exercise I'm trying to explain.
     
  14. user1293435134

    user1293435134 Kapellmeister

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    Thank you for re-explaining, I understand now. You suggest I learn triad inversions. Which are triad chords just linearly rearranged. You mean I should practice the 8 bar progression (C G C F C F G C) with the inversions you specified which ascend the scale. These chords in the progression are the I, IV & V of C major.

    To make it simpler for future readers:

    8 bar chord progression; C -> G -> C -> F -> C -> F -> G -> C

    1st Chord.) C (I) as C-E-G [Root Inversion]

    2nd Chord.) G (V) as D-G-B [2nd Inversion]

    3rd Chord.) C (I) as E-G-C [1st Inversion]

    4th Chord.) F (IV) as F-A-C [Root Inversion]

    5th Chord.) C (I) as G-C-E [2nd Inversion]

    6th Chord.) F (IV) as A-C-F [1st Inversion]

    7th Chord.) G (V) as B-D-G [1st Inversion]

    8th Chord.) C (I) as C-E-G [Root Inversion]

    First note of each chord ascends up the C major scale ending by returning to C.

    C -> G -> C -> F -> C -> F -> G -> C C -> D -> E -> F -> G -> A -> B -> C
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
  15. DoubleSharp

    DoubleSharp Platinum Record

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    Exactly! Thank you for clarifying.

    Make sure the fingerings are correct. I followed what a friend who teaches/performs piano told me RE fingering.

    Make sure you descend as well. If you get bored, then make a rhythmic motif. Eg Arpeggios. Or try placing the Scale notes on the top rather than the bottom.

    You can also swtich the C in the middle of the progression with a G.

    Exact same phsyical positions for A Minor too. So if you're sick of C then try A minor. (Or even Dminor for a dorian feel. You could choose any mode).

    When I am trying to learn a new key, EG G, then I will apply the same thing but also include the relative minor, which is E.
     
  16. DoubleSharp

    DoubleSharp Platinum Record

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    This could also be harmonised as a G Chord [root inversion]
     
  17. user1293435134

    user1293435134 Kapellmeister

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    Thanks for the advice!

    What do you mean by this? Do you mean descend the circle of fifths?

    You're using the circle of fourths/fifths for these changes right?

    Why would a Dorian feel be evoked by this?

    You apply the principles of the 8 bar progression exercise each time you learn a new key?
     
  18. DoubleSharp

    DoubleSharp Platinum Record

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    Re: descending. Nope not circle of 5ths. Just go back down the chord progression you explained earlier. So instead of being an 8 bar progression it would then be a 15 bar. (I don't double up on the C chord at the end) [or should that be middle ??]

    Go from C all the way through the scale to C and then back to the original C.

    Yep, because the physical positions are the same for the relative minor as they are to the Major. It's just more milage. I think they're the same physical positions for the other modes.

    The I, IV and V chords of a key are super important.

    It's just a name for a type of diatonic scale. Each of these scales has a different vibe. It's perhaps easier to understand if you transpose them all into C, but i'll leave that up to you.

    C Major - CDEFGABC
    I = CMajor
    4= FMajor
    5= GMajor

    A Minor - ABCDEFGA
    1=Aminor
    4=Dminor
    5=Eminor

    Notice how this mixes major and minor.
    D Dorian- DEFGABCD
    1=Dminor
    4=GMajor
    5=Aminor

    Hope that helps. I just use these as 5 minute warmup/mental excersies. In the Left hand I like to play the root and fifths of each chord. Honestly, I think this one excersise has helped me so much for doing what you asked.

    It helps muscle memory, ears, voice leading, diatonic knowledge. The I IV and V are super important chords.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2021
  19. 5teezo

    5teezo Audiosexual

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    Don't look at charts, don't count notes, learn the actual basics of music theory! They didn't teach you math in school by making you memorize results to equasions either, or did they? No, you learnt the system of what math is (hopefully). Same goes for music. All these charts, counting half steps is for people who don't understand the underlyig concept and systematic relationship between the notes themselves. You can do that of course but it won't get you far in terms of composing dope music.

    So the aim should be to learn, HOW major and minor cales are actually constructed and how chords are actually a result of layering notes, more specific thirds.

    You know this, right? The C major scale:

    C––D––E-F-–G--A--B-

    Because Chords are based on thirds composed of the notes of a scale, lets start stacking them. The third note in this scale is the E. Just throw the same set of notes on top of the existing ones it but start with the 3rd one which is the E:

    E- F--G--A--B-C--D--
    C––D––E -F-- G--A--B-

    Finally, throw the next third on top, which is the 5th scae degree - the G - and start building the scale from it: you get this:

    G--A--B- C--D--E- F--
    E- F–-G--A--B- C--D--
    C––D––E- F–-G--A--B-

    And if you reed from bottom to the top – OH MY GOD… Chords. The intervals between the first, 2nd and 3rd note of any chords define it's quality: major third followed by minor thid = major chord. Minor third followed by a major third = Major Chord. So we get the follong pattern of chords:

    Cmaj, Dmin, Emin, Fmaj, Gmaj, Amin, B° (the be is diminished becaus you are stacking 2 minor thirds in this case (BDF).

    In scale step theory they are also notated in roman numerals as: I ii iii IV V vi vii°

    I ii iii IV V vi vii°
    G--A--B- C--D--E- F--
    E- F–-G--A--B- C--D--
    C––D––E- F–-G--A--B-


    And since you know now how basic triad chords are constructed you can add 7th, 9th and 11th scale degrees on top of that easily and voilà, you can build any chord in the major scale now. Inversions are noting more than shiftung one of the note of the triad an octave up. You can do that for any not in the triad, so the more notes a chord has, the more inversions are posiible: Numer of Inversions = Number of notes making up a chord -1. If they all make sense musically is another question…

    In Minor its is a bit more sophisticated as we all know. But at the end of the day it's the beautifuller of both scales. Whoever stigmatized minor as being "sad" doesn't know shit about composing music…

    So the clear answer from somebody who is not interested in playing the keyboard, but rather producing/composes music: learn the systematics. It will help you in getting around the scales without counting notes. Again, since I am not interested in performing on the keyboard I cannot instruct you on how to practice, but this is the least music theory you should internalize.

    And a little nugget at the end: if you go down a minor third (3 half steps) in any major scale you land in what's called the relative minor scale of what you are currently in. In the case of the c major, you land on the A. A minor and C major consist of the same tonal material: A B C D E F A G, only the place where you start playing is all what makes the difference since it shifts the position of the half steps in between notes which makes all the difference in termes of whats the scale.

    So in a nutshell: get the big picture of the systematic and then everything will come in easy. Later on you can add sus2 and sus4 in the mix easily.

    Happy playing. And oh, get into Jazz. That's where all the dope chords come from (mostly) :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2021
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  20. esl.hls.cat

    esl.hls.cat Guest

    As far as I know, questions like this have been asked a lot here and some interesting solutions have been presented. If you study these solutions, you'll learn from each.:wink:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2021
  21. DoubleSharp

    DoubleSharp Platinum Record

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    It's all neurons and muscles memory.



    "All music is played by ear. If the signal from the brain is strong enough, your hands will do anything to respond. It's all about creating a strong brain signal."

    "It doesn't take intelligence to become a great jazz musician, there's plenty of proof of that around!"

    I love Hal.
     
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