Hello was wondering if we can dig into your criticism of me , I am willing to steelman your position if you clarify enough And explore it with you , thank you for your time .

 

Hopefully the wired and annoying autocorrects have not given you the wrong impression.........

 

So do you believe that each moment that passes inside your experience on the level of thought , that one has to evaluate your thoughts to see if it fits in category of reality or fantasy?
It is very basic yes , but that is the point you have demonstrably shown time and time again you have difficult time differentiating real actual person vs imagined construct image of them in your mind.
You have clearly shown that by presenting comments which in formulation can only have been directed at the specific construct of mmj in your minds eye. ( Given the constant presuppositions and assumptions welded into your comments)
For example say you did actually have that clear distinction between mmj actual person vs mmj your mind construct you would have asked me to find out if the real breathing persons matches the presuppositions and assumptions embedded in your thought construct of mmj .
However that is not what you have done so far .
And no manipulation of words can justify actions which you have taken regarding this specific context . It is simply not possible for you to behave as done multiple times while also having the ability to differentiate actual person from your thought image of them . This is because that ability to differentiate leads to different behavior .

 

means anti democratic....means totalitarian....means preconception...means love to spread polarization ...means no empathy...no live and let live others..no no...
means no love for all....
not all machos's need to burn....just ignore them...
im talkin bout being balanced and not instrumentalist...

 

Last edited: Feb 12, 2019

and all this smart ode's here in thread...

you dont need to loose all to have empathy for a homeless...but nowadays ppl are exactly like this or like in indias caste system...but they would never admit....and all that plastic smile....

blv me i have more fun with few sixpack beer on street with homeless,junkies,thugs,refugees,punks or skinheads left or right than with this up to date update crazy so fresh so clean overdoing spineless opportunistic poser society , even when have all the money in world , to have cheat sheet on all

 

I think we need to be careful in our world today constantly using Nazi etc . It like how we turned pirating from stealing cargo and taping kidnapping women and murdering people on ocean ships into " oh. You are duplicating music movies ,ones and zeros and sharing it online you are a pirate"
Just like that we in society are using Nazi which was horribly killing millions of people dehumanizing way and just calling anything different Nazi.
However it is clear that an extremist left is growing to be the mainstream .
Not cooperating work together to utilize the strengths of individuals brought together , instead more and more dogmic collectivism attitude which shuns individuals slightly different perspective from the collective group think .
Hopefully those strong leftists can see that there is a too far to the left just like with the right
A center balance is only realistic option .
Too far either direction becomes so collectivist we lose rights values of individual freedoms .
A group cannot take responsibility only individuals .
Tribalism and xenophobia is built into group think structure . Because people suspend thought out of laziness or fear of being called racist or Nazi

 

i have made this perfectly clear multiple times. i have explained why multiple times. it does not say much for your intelligence. all you have to do is take the responsibility to read and comprehend and all this would be clear to you. as i have already said i will engage how i see fit, stop trying tell me what to do.

it is not manipulation. it is debate. you should try it sometime.

steelman that.

 

standard evasive answer #1. just add buzzwords: steelman, clarify, explore.

never be willing to actually do this though.

this has been demonstrated multiple times.

 

i think the impression people got was perfectly clear and correct.

take some responsibility and courage to stand by your positions.

it is difficult to respect people who weasel.

i assume autocorrect would correct spelling mistakes of which there are many. strange.

 

aaaaand... standard evasive answer #2. back to the good old psychobabble. exactly the same as the other scree of psychobabble. its like a script. the cycle continues.

turtles all the way down here.

there are so many fallacies that can be thrown at this. pick your own.

this method of argumentation can be deemed disingenuous.

 

Are you saying something?
Please don't drink and drive,.........

 

As a musician, surely you've heard of the notion, "less is more"? We live in a soundbite age where attention span (& time spare) is generally scarse... So a good post demands at least a smidgeon of pre-meditation - not stream of (un)consciousness verbosity. Yet this appears to be precisely how you approach dialogue in all your threads.

The title of this post suggests the possibility of some tasty meta-munchies but turned into a shameless vehicle for you to espouse your evidently wobbly sociopolitical worldview. The personal and the political are inexorably connected, all good, let's go - but then you refused to kick back and let the ideas flow, and instead took every comment personally - when often people were attempting to make broader observations. Even though you're the OP, don't make you the pope. And it just drives some people mad.

In real terms actually it's the extreme right who are setting the agenda. Your fears about 'leftists' (i hate words that denote ignorance) is misplaced - for the vast majority of motes helplessly clinging on this alienated 'paradise', a real shift left would fit them just fine. Because as far as i can tell capitalist individualism = alienating atomisation on almost every level. In this (and mortality) are we all now rendered equal i suppose - Happy Hols!

EDIT: i was about a paragraph further in... then realised it was just superfluous guff and deleted it - less is more!

 

Last edited: Feb 13, 2019

L

Hello thank you for your comments and thoughts on this .
I have given a great deal of thought for a number of years on the very thing you are describing here and I appreciate being able to talk to you about it.
So when it comes down to using words in a format like this, I prioritize the aspects involved . Then I weigh the risks involved in each possible choice for how to go about it.
And for communicating in this context the priority comes out for the most meaning and clarity as important and word density is much lower.
However I still weight the risks of word density .
Now the word density issue clashes against the higher priority of meaning and clarity in this case such that if a decision is made to minimize the word density then the meaning becomes more general and ambiguous and Lowers clarity since the content of my posts are almost always content specific.
On the other hand if the word density is too high then a great number of users will not read through carefully or skip through and misunderstand .
I weigh this issue of word density carefully in every instance since it has such a large connect to my higher priority.
Most of the time I decide that in order for it to be worth it to spend time and effort at all , I have to do my best with the meaning and context and be as clear as the situation requires at the expense of losing those readers who have lower attention span .also I try to embedded the most meaning in the least bit of context possible . And I promise you if you carefully go through my comments several times you will continue to find deeper than surface level information embedded in it .
Especially with my music theory threads .

Now you make several assumptions about me in this comment specifically about this thread.

You say I took things personally and not let ideas flow here. Yet I do not see where I have restricted any ideas this whole thread is solely about people ideas if you go back and read carefully I'm constantly inviting everyone to participate . About taking things personally I don't think many have talked to me directly and I haven't felt like anything was personal .

I understand that you are saying your seeing things through a certain perspective I understand that , however I ask you to please go through the material again asking yourself if it possible for you to see it with another than you have. Ultimately which ever way you see it I am happy for you to share it and I invite it thank you for your time.
I am sorry this post became long , but I wanted to produce meaning with it and clarity .
PS
I don't buy "less is more" in music or sound bytes
Those things have no depth and real life is deep not shallow no subject or aspect of reality can be captured that way.and I am unaware of cliches or stereotypes accomplishing much.

 

Last edited: Feb 13, 2019

if a person wants to reference the dialectic and critique based on it, try not to make narrow, hyperbolic, misleading assessments.

dealing with psychopaths is not entirely a political issue.

it is not clear that the extremist left is becoming mainstream. this is alarmist and hyperbolic. echos political talking points in the wider discourse on these subjects. you would have to prove the validity of you statement and i do not think you adequately can. anyway it is obvious political discussion, i will not comment further.

more catastrophist, hyperbolic, slippery slope.. i will not even deal with it. can be used to manipulate opinion. 'collective group think' ?

it is obvious from wider discourse that people are well aware of the dangers of extremism. i do not see why you constantly have to state obvious things. the hard extremes exist to hold a center, it is not a matter of an option or not. another model would have to be formulated if this were not the case. this demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of these matters.

individuals are part of a group, groups are comprised of individuals. the two are inextricably linked.

'group think structure' is such a nebulous term you would have to explain what it is how it relates to this and why you think tribalism and xenophobia are built into it.

i agree tribalism is a problem, and can have its excesses like anything can. some of this can be mitigated by fully understanding reciprocal positions among other things. this is starting to get off topic.

i agree xenophobia has lead to some bad performative action. i do not think that has to be proved.

this all echos political talking points in the wider discourse on these subjects. i am only pointing this out and commenting, i am not the source of the politicization of this discussion and on this forum at large. do not blame me.

[my prediction: this will all be a gross misunderstanding of my own personal psychological state. no objective argument is allowed]

 

"group x are nazis because they hold views i disagree with"

"group x is

because they present objective critique to words i have written on a page.

the time honored tradition of responding to words on a page has been rendered obsolete. everything is a just a hollow subjective echo chamber. this is disturbing.

such a weak, evasive position, formulated in order to stifle objective criticism. not good.

is this the future of objective critique and critical thinking and discourse? at least in this thread it is.

how can a person use such terms as, 'collective group think' and 'group think structure' as pejoratives and still present such an argument.

as i have said you should not mislead people into thinking this is a discussion. false advertising. this is you issuing talking points, any critical analysis will be ignored.

 

Last edited: Feb 13, 2019

when you have no substantial, compelling reply.

reply like this:

class dismissed.

 

Here is the thing you continue to do , not describe anything or explain how reality matches one of your ambiguous remarks .
Class dismissed?
When you are done with recess come and see me.

 

Yeah right , lol haha you are telling me that you actually believe what you are doing is critical analysis? I know you don't believe that .
When you are done throwing jabs at the bag , why don't you try getting in the ring?

 

The psychological component of reality for human beings has a large impact on equality in our society .
People which have a difficult time differentiating themselves imagining a person vs the actual person leave out important details of the context causing misunderstanding which causes them to treat others in dehumanizing ways .
This component of " reality vs fantasy" in other words the difference between actual people and fictional characters is one the most important things in all of our lives
Every single moment and micro second from birth to death of every single human being that's exists you are dealing with your thought process .
How you navigate your thought process and treat your thoughts leads to what you say and do how you behave.
The difference between being able to distinguish your thought image from the real actual person you are attempting to think about and not being able to tell the difference between real actual person and your shallow line drawing of a thought process of them , leads to reactions whether what you say how you behave or how you treat people opposite from one another.
Think about the difference between dehumanizing someone by treating them as if all they are is your thoughts of them , compared to constantly reminding yourself the real person is much more than your thoughts of them and then asking them questions to attempt to create more accurate thoughts about them which make a better connection to the actual person. This outcome involves humility , consideration , thoughtful careful inqury and treating others like a actual person just like you are .
We know that no stranger can look at us or hear one conversation or even spend 1 week everyday with us and have their thoughts of us match the totality of who we are given the sheer complexity and number of details which make up our totality .

We also know that the way the human thought process works is that our misunderstanding is in direct proportion to the the number of varibles we are ignorant of in the situation .
Misunderstanding is the source of mistreatment , dehumanization , and these remove equality of opportunity .
Misunderstanding removes co_operation and replaces it with types of domination in the instances when one is not thinking about the aspect of reality in which the other person they thinking about are a human being just like them .
They have to start off thinking as if the actual person is only really the thought construct they are thinking about then it becomes easy to mistreat and dehumanize the person because they not even considering them as a real person just like them .

 

Many times in life ,our thoughts enter our awareness as low resolution statements which automatically make assumptions or jump to conclusions ( in other words fill in the blanks using our imagination )
Evidence of this is contained in the common syntax and semantics we are commonly taught in our phrasing.

Think of these phrases

" Joe is being selfish ."
" Joe is jealous "

If we look at these there is built in meaning of the intent of the individual the phrases are not simply observations of what took place ,

When we have a thought enter our awareness it is important to think of all the varibles in the situation and then convert it to a direct observation of facts ,
This reduces creating a false emotional response in us by simply going by the initsl low resolution thought .
For example
Think about how ordinary this situation is .
Mary is doing dishes when Frank walks in the room.
Mary says " Frank how was your day?"
Frank says " shit your never going to believe what the boss has got me doing , ..... Frank goes on for while about unhappy work situation "
Mary is waiting for a break in the conversation to tell Frank about getting ow her big job interview went which Frank and her had discussed before he left and she had the interview and she is waiting to tell him how it went because she told him how important it was to her to get the job.
Frank continues about his bad day on and on
Finally right as he stops Mary proclaims
" So when I got there for the interview....,"
Frank interrupts " you know after all this years I put in and the boss does this to me?"
Then Frank storms out of the room before Mary can finish .
Mary thinks to herself " he does not care about me "
" Frank knew how important this was to me and he is being selfish he does not even care enough to know what happened to me today "
" He is being selfish , does he even care at all"?
Mary storms 9ntp the other room
" I'm tired of this you don't care about me "
She grabs her purse and keys
"That's it I'm done"
She slams the door
Frank yells out" what is going on what did I do? "


Now ask yourself how common is that situation and that particular thought response Mary had ,?

Now what is it about the thoughts Mary had at the end of the situation that made her so upset that she left and done with the relationship?
First she had thoughts come in consciousness which had a motive attached and made assumptions that were not a part of reality itself .
Her inital low resolution thought " he does not care about me"
Did not describe the actual situation happening through observation ,
Next it had a motive attached that the reason he interrupted her and was not listening paying attention was because he does not care or value her .
The observation alone shows that the situation is made of 2 people with psychological states
Hers was focused on her day his was on his and because he reacted by interrupting her which was a mistake and not listening to her which was mistake
It led to the formation of her thoughts which had assumptions and motivations not contained in reality .
This is an everyday occurance for us we all struggle with this process .