What is real? ( Or not) EQUALITY

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by MMJ2017, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Throughout the course of my life ,I have held an ideology of equality .As I have gotten older and gained wisdom I try to anaylize my ideas deeply and see if I am wrong about things.
    For the majority of my life I have been strong left leaning and considered myself very liberal and having mostly contempt for governments And monetary systems and unknowingly having a deep Marxist attitude at the heart of my ideas.
    Overtime as I have looked deeper at the problem of inequality and researched more areas I have come to realize that inequality is a much deeper probelm than that which can be laid at the feet of economic and government systems.
    The problem of inequality exists in our biological evolution all the way back to the beginning.
    Us human beings have evolved a sense of fairness as we are social animals and rightly so however , I believe that the leftist position does not adequetly look into inequality deep enough or take it seriously enough .
    Let's look at ourselves for a moment the way we live life think in thought, make descisions , the way our brain works in reality.
    Let's say you are looking for a sexual mate .
    Do you begin by taking statistics of everyone living in your area and putting names in a hat and randomly selecting so that there is a equality of outcome and total fairness in that process?
    No, you sure do not excersise a equality position and certainly do not use a particular method which even has the capacity to create equality .
    Whether when deciding what to eat ,how to dress what haircut to get, which people to talk to , that to spend your time on, anything you think about , you do not use any method ( random throw of dice) which has the capacity to create equality.
    And because you nor I actually use methods in any area of our lives to create equality , we are left with it only as an idealology. Not an actuality we see fit to pursue.
    I don't want to go on too long even though o haven't touched on much yet . For example the role of personal responsibility , but please leave your comments and we can dig deeper in any area you feel is important surrounding the topic.
     
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  3. DoubleTake

    DoubleTake Platinum Record

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    I step around political content here, as the rules imply, but I wonder if JB Peterson connected some dots in your mind.
    Psychology (biology [nature, that is: Universe of physics]) IS at the root of all human things..of all EVERY things, and our incomprehensive and faulty concepts, ideologies (how "things are") are misleading. For humans, psychology is the "why" for everything, but psychology is complicated :woot:
     
  4. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    I'm coming around to having the wisdom of seeing that in anyoment , and situation in our life we have to have an equal balance of order and chaos, what I mean by that is equal amounts of structure and creativety this manifests itself in any endevour we set out to accomplish.
    Let's say relative to this forum for example .
    Music .
    If we are creating music and throw away all form and think okay total chaos meaning each of the 12 notes is equal.(equality)
    We are left with a type of method which gives us no way to say any riff or song we create no Melody or harmony is better than another.
    What if we take the position that we should create music with total structure on the opposite end. Well in that case we are going to make music that is dead lifeless and generic with no creativety .
    This Is just one example.
     
  5. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    I'll respond to the interpersonal aspect.

    I think equality is relative, a question of perspective.

    I know there are people who say 'we are all equal' and I know some psychologists say this is a sign for a lack of (self)awareness.

    Do I treat a woman the same way like a man? Hell, no (I'm not crazy). Do I treat a banker the same way like a punk? Of course not (I'm more 'relaxed' when I talk to a punk).
    I can give some of my male friends a friendly punch on the shoulder and I have male friends who don't like this a bit (and I don't do this with women at all).
    But in a certain way this is equality and I try to use a method in my behaviour. I try to treat people the way that suits best for them. And so far I made pretty good experiences with it.
     
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  6. LZ Jaydon

    LZ Jaydon Kapellmeister

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    Are you seeing yourself as equal to other beings? Do you believe you are more advanced than a certain group of people? Do you believe other people are worth more than you?

    When you see a woman do you put her on a podium? Do you think that by gaining knowledge you will begin to succeed?

    Because it all starts with ourselves. The current state of inequality (wether that is politically, economically, socially) is a direct reflection of the relationship we have with oneself. Only someone who is full can truly gift. A society build upon the illusions of unlimited growth, greed and manipulation (of inequality!) does not come into being out of nowhere. It was a process which our ancestors did support and we are still supporting.
     
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  7. pht23

    pht23 Noisemaker

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    But we do so on purpose. We gain profit, everyone of us - living our lifes the way we think is suited to our kind of situation.
    It may be not that suited at all but we still think it is.
    We make exceptions.

    But yeah IMO at the heart of it all lies that damn "unlimited growth"-brainwash stuff that's propagandized so heavy even still today. As if nobody wouldve noticed by now that we're effin totally running towards a brickwall - no limiter capable of cutting that bloody mess, peaking hard before post-decaying....



    But as said it's nobody but us buying into it. "Mother Nature is a whore"
     
  8. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Ultrasonic

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    As animals our instinct is to judge on many levels, weighing on a moment to moment basis with all our senses those dangers which could bring us harm, our impulse to stay alive strong as the first priority. Air, water, food and then followed by sexual reproduction are the basics. Extrapolate these truths to find out why we make our choices of how we experience equality. As for a woman living in the west, it has been only very recently that there is even the wisp of parity as humans in the mind of the vast majority of men. In certain regions a woman's life is totally dependant on the men in her life and the glass ceiling is a mile thick. Equality is not a thing and woman are treated as beings existing on a lower tiered grounding. The truth is, men and woman compliment each other and the natural world depends on this. Sometimes being female is a hardship, sometimes not, but always a blessing to be.

    Only woman bleed, men seem jealous, so go to war only to show off their scars if and
    when they return.

    What is real, really, besides that which we believe is so?

    One woman's idea.

     
  9. ICWC

    ICWC Guest

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    The movements seem random at first glance but in fact are not random. Our brains or made machines don't have enough capability to analyze it yet and prefer not to think about it and leave the complexity to the nature and unfortunately the nature doesn't always yield the desirable results.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2019
  10. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    You selected the word random in my comment but do you know the significance of why i used random in that context?
    Because random selecting us the only way of selecting which is equality. If you select for anything which one thing is judged better than another in any area than equality dissolves . This has large implications that the problem of inequality is the biggest deepest problem imaginable.
    It is serious business .
    Imagion your are looking for a sexual mate ,
    Only by picking randomly does each potential partner have equal chance of bring selected.
    If you select based on any attribute your putting the canadates into a heirarchy
    Let's say attractiveness well you now have inequality based on it. Let's say intelligence you are now ranking canidates differently on that no equality what about kindness, any thing you pick your creating inequality .
     
  11. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Woman are the reason humanity has continued because they alone have the power to select which mates and children to carry on. Women are the things that respectable men cherish most. To make the world safe for their mothers and daughters . Throughout history of humanity men have loved and cherished their mothers and daughters and are the motivating forces behind most actions ( even with all kinds of oppression happening at all levels throughout history)
     
  12. Lois Lane

    Lois Lane Ultrasonic

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    Child brides and pre-arranged marriages may hamper your argument, and though thankfully no longer the norm in much of the world, still exists for millions of woman yearly on this planet. Let's not forget children born to woman who are raped with no other recourse but to take the cards dealt without choice and raising a child conceived by felony assault.
     
  13. DoubleTake

    DoubleTake Platinum Record

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    Somewhere I heard a guy (in some science lecture series) talking about his life as a scientists and a musician (trumpet player) in an orchestra. He said that his involvement in music was not where he found freedom, but rather in science. He had to play exactly and specifically as directed, but in science it was up to him what to pursue and how to go about it. Of course that is ORCHESTRAL music under direction, and he was using the example to dispel preconceptions about the rigidity of science, but an interesting point of view.
     
  14. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Yes those things happened in the world. Not only that every single person went through horrible things from all directions . In spite of struggle and domination coming from all angles the vast majority of humanity beings which lived long enough to reproduce had loving and adoring feelings for their mothers daughters and sisters and used their healthy relationships in those areas as a psychological framework for which how to see their wives.
    There is no large percentage of any socitey which males do not love their mothers , daughters sisters etc.
    There is no accepted stereotype in society of a male which sees their mothers and daughters and sisters as garbage or teach or less than human or soaves . We are the descendents of the accepted stereotype in society which shows the male caring MORE for his mother,daughter ,sister wanting to make sure they healthy and happy ,even that the way those female look at that make is very important to him and unbreakable unconditional love is the norm .
     
  15. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    All across the world men have always wanted to protect their daughters make sure they are okay and healthy and happy with more care and attention than their sons. There are no Disney movies with archetypes of honorable men or heros seeing their daughters and mothers as garbage or less than human or as slaves , we live in a reality which treating women and females badly has always been looked at as horrible and the act of a villian.
     
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  16. DoubleTake

    DoubleTake Platinum Record

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    Well, not ALWAYS... and not in some PLACES. Place and time pinpoint a particular CULTURE. Certainly in modern western cultures IN GENERAL treating women badly is looked at as horrible, but cultures contain subcultures of various kinds..many different kinds, smaller groups within the subcultures, down to the individual. There are hierarchies of culture and some will be more successful than others, for reasons we may like or dislike. Some cultures of repression and terror over most members can dominate large areas and last many years. Some of us are fortunate to inherit cultures which promote well being and limit suffering. I am lucky to live in one... not perfect but better than many, so i am no putting down "my" culture, or "western culture" ... just saying that nothing is perfect.
     
  17. Nana Banana

    Nana Banana Platinum Record

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    There is a difference between "sameness" and "oneness" . We are equally one as a terrestrial species. Yet are uniquely unequal and not the same at both an introspective and extroverted observation. Fragments of a mirror, shattered into individual pieces, no shard the same size, and at the same time a part of the same reflective surface.
     
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  18. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    I am coming to terms with the evidence of science and history overturning some of my beleifs . It can be difficult . For example I really supported a resource based economy for many years and as time has gone by and learned more and more I see the flaws in the ideas .
     
  19. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    One of the things rarely talked about is personal responsibility .one the problems with this idea of doing everything for someone is that us human beings are built in a ceratin way you can have the answers given to you have anything given to you but our psychological framework is such that we hace to take on a responsibility to be balanced and healthy . You can see this in almost any situation pets say and example of a young person at University. They can be at school have information presented all day and few years later know less than a person on that subject who never even went to University if the conditions were the person never took responsibility to learn the information and the self taught person took responsibility for themselves to learn it even though day they were too poor to attend University.
     
  20. G String

    G String Rock Star

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    I think you are stretching the notion of equality. Having equality of opportunity to fully realise one's self in no way suggests everyone must choose the same things, or realise themselves in the same way.

    Indeed, the idea is that equality will make for a more differentiated humanity, because people will have greater ability and resource to pursue their own individualism and self-realisation (rather than it depend on their station in life).
     
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  21. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    You could be right about that. The way I'm seeing it 8s that we are taking the concept of equality then attaching that concept to another one in this case opportunity, now I think anyone can and dies ahree with that but if we take a step back to just equality itself before attaching it to anything else , is it a real thing? We must feel a certain justification for using it in a way where it has a capacity at all to get attached to another thing. In so doing it really shows the true depths of inequality bared naked to see more critically, I believe in doing so demonstrated that our desire for something is separate sometimes from the way things work in reality or the truth of reality .
     
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