VU meters trouble

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by SquareDjay, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Producer

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    Hi guys,
    I'm back(see my ther old thread on VU calibration) with VU meters!
    I was mixing today and I've noticed a weird thing;when I have on one track the Presonus VU meter and the Klanghelm VUMT, I have 2 different values.
    Both have their original settings.
    [​IMG]
    If I set on the Klanghelm the rise parameter at its minimum value (150ms) it shows more db than what it does on the photo but still far from the Presonus VU's value.
    If I set the sensitivity parameter on the Presonus VU meter to the minimum,it shows 1 or maybe 2 db less but it doesn't match with the Klanghelm!
    Which one do you (think I should) believe?
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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  3. eXACT_Beats_

    eXACT_Beats_ Kapellmeister

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    This caught my eye because I use Klanghem's VUMT Deluxe constantly, and S1 is my main DAW. I just went into S1, selcted a random mix of mine and compared the two VU's (original settings,) on the master track, as well as on mono and stereo piano channels and they seem to read the same. I tried the PSP TripleMeter and that is basically spot-on with Presonus' and Klanghelm's VU's as well. So, unless I'm missing something....
    I'm trying to think what might have your values skewed, but I haven't come up with anything yet. Luckily, there are ten thousand producers lurking around on Audiosex, so I'm sure one of them will figure it out. Good luck.
     
  4. LFO

    LFO Kapellmeister

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    Yep, it's well known issue with Presonus VU meter, don't trust it.
    Despite it's name it's not true VU but PPM meter and it's mind boggling why on Earth didn't they implement to show true VU input value.
    Use Klenghelm VU or Waves VU for accurate results.
     
  5. Von_Steyr

    Von_Steyr Guest

    Remember kids, Presonus charges 500$ for this. :deep_facepalm:
     
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  6. eXACT_Beats_

    eXACT_Beats_ Kapellmeister

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    Okay, I fiddled around a bit and this is what I got.
    I am running S1 3.5.6.0 (I doubt that's significant, but....,) and updated my Presonus VU from v.1.0.0.3.4 to v.1.0.1.36 and tried it again. The Klanghelm and The PSP VU's--both are the latest builds--are reading my master channel (unMastered, just solidly mixed,) as peaking at -4db and dropping to about -12db at points, where as PreSonus' VU is reading my peak is -8db and dropping to around -17db. So, based on this, the Presonus VU seems to be the one that's off since the other two are identical. I almost solely use Klanghelm's VU and double check it with the PSP (both which seem to match up with Levels and other such db readers that I run my tracks through,) but I have never really tested them out against more than a couple other meters, and never against the Presonus VU.
    This is a disconcerting difference; I'll be curious if other people find this same issue.
     
  7. eXACT_Beats_

    eXACT_Beats_ Kapellmeister

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    A solid point....if it wasn't a VU Meter; it's not like they have to reinvent the goddamn wheel. Besides that, a lot of free plugins that are quality, so it *is surprising that Presonus would put out a shoddy product, even if it is free.
     
  8. eXACT_Beats_

    eXACT_Beats_ Kapellmeister

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    I wasn't aware of that. You would think that they would mention that on their site. PPM meters aren't really that useful for anyone who has a transient-ridden track, and the approximate 4db-5db difference that I was seeing fits perfectly with the fact that it's a PPM meter....I feel kinda dumb for not catching that, actually, especially since the PPM has the slower needle drop-time. It all seems almost irrelevant though, seeing as how everyone has been using LUFS/dbTP now for any final stage mastering for....what? almost a decade now? (Correct me if I'm wrong on that. I don't know exactly when the ITU-R-BS....whatever came into play.)
     
  9. relexted

    relexted Ultrasonic

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    Feed a 1kHz sine wave at -18dBFS. Use the VU with a readout at 0db.
    Or calibrate your go to plugin.
     
  10. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Producer

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    I understand now why I found the level of my tracks so low when I used only the Presonus VU meter.
    I don't understand why they made a wrong VU meter.What does it use for?!
    I used it carefully on each of my tracks to have an optimum level for the others plugins and I realize that I was never at 0db VU...:suicide:
     
  11. LFO

    LFO Kapellmeister

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  12. LFO

    LFO Kapellmeister

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    More info here: https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-whats-difference-between-ppm-and-vu-meters

    However, true VU meter is still relevant today if you're using analog hardware consoles and effects and also analog moddeled plugins because they are calibrated with sweet spot at 0dB VU input even they are "digital" plugins.
     
  13. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Producer

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  14. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Producer

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    Yes I know it,that's why I use them and that is why I don't understand Presonus to have made a PPM meter in place of a VU meter.
     
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