VST2 vs VST3

Discussion in 'Software' started by wasgedn, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. 5teezo

    5teezo Rock Star

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    379
    So you use no Kontakt or othe virtual instruments by Native Instruments then, I guess?
     
  2. techdevil

    techdevil Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Scotland
    Na, if theres a VST3 I use it, if vst2 only I use it. Simple as that.

    Edit: Apart from Soundtoys and NI I dont have a lot thats not got a working vst3
     
  3. teknomix

    teknomix Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    35
    First I have installed all my plugins in VST3, but something strange will happen every time, pops, cracks, GUI freezes and so on with much instruments at the same time, finally I opted to install only VST 2 versions and all works flawlessly in both mac and windows.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  4. Giggity

    Giggity Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    98
    What DAW?
    Are they legit plugins?
    Is your daw legit?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  5. techdevil

    techdevil Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Scotland
    If he says Ableton beta, well....
     
  6. metaller

    metaller Rock Star

    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    353
    Location:
    Persia
    I am understanding that musicians are worse than all people in resisting against new technologies. :no:
    My cloud Backup thread and now VST3. That's why some people still swear by old mixing hardware.
     
  7. One Reason

    One Reason Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,745
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Where I dont want to be
    Im a bit confused... does Live 10.0.6 Air version support VST3, and if so... how do you access it... seeing there is only one choice for VST folder?

    Or.. are we still waiting on a 10.1 release for VST3?
     
  8. techdevil

    techdevil Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Scotland
    I belive v10.1 with vst3 is in open beta, but not Abelton user, sorry..
     
  9. SineWave

    SineWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,874
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    Location:
    The darkest pit of my mind
    Yes, most of the DAWs do support VST3, but it's still more flaky than VST2. Sorry. :sad:

    And I haven't noticed VST3 plugins using less CPU than VST2. I would be using VST3 plugins like mad then. :)

    Ableton Live is one of the DAWs who's developers have been against VST3... but they eventually decided to support it, finally. So full VST3 support is just around the corner. It took Reaper developers a long time, too, and nowadays VST3 plugins work flawlessly with it. But with Reaper sidechaining was never a problem and there are no real benefits in using VST3 plugins. It all just comes down to which plugin version works better with Reaper.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  10. One Reason

    One Reason Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,745
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    Where I dont want to be
    SOo waitin on 10.1 then... thanks..
     
  11. Giggity

    Giggity Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    98
    @SineWave , it actually does use less CPU power.:yes:

    To further elaborate, suppose you have a 60 track project of various instruments. each of those require dynamics coloration, sonic coloration, etc. The project composes of 3 section: intro; verse; and breakdown. You have 30, 60, and 40 tracks playing in each of those sections, respectively. Now, the main benefit of VST3 is that the plugins that you have going on on the 30 additional tracks in your verse, go into a ""hibernate" mode and do not use CPU power for just being in your signal-chain, and get activated only when signal is passing through. This is actually a dream come true cause why would you want to compensate your CPU for a plugin if it's not operating, or in other words, why would you want to pay your hourly-waged employee, when he's on the job-site, but is on a break. However, with VST/2, you're always going to paying your employee regardless of working or not.

    So I guess it really comes down to your preference, if you're the type of guy with extra money (CPU power) to spend for no apparent reason, you could stick with older VST versions. :winker:

    However, some people are in denial of a 1996 technology (VST), being inferior to that of 1999 VST2, and all of those to 2017 VST 3.7, and it is just ridiculous. I'm curious about the mobile-phones they use today.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  12. Giggity

    Giggity Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    98
    Haha you got a point mate, but to be exact it was in 2008 that VST3 was launched, and was updated regularly throughout the years, with the latest one being VST3.6.7 launched in March 2017. So, more like a 2-year old news. :winker:.

    But I suppose the goal of this thread is not to notify people of the technology having arrived, but rather to bring awareness to why you could benefit from switching to it. @wasgedn, as the OP, correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  13. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    1,711
    Location:
    Europe
    You'll only really benefit from it if the parts play alternately not additionally.
     
  14. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    1,711
    Location:
    Europe
    Gimme my cell phone back. :guru:
     
  15. Giggity

    Giggity Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    98
    Well of course, when there's no incoming signal.
     
  16. Giggity

    Giggity Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    98
    [​IMG]
     
  17. techdevil

    techdevil Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Scotland
    Guys to put this all into a bit of perspective, I think the Ableton users, will be a bit wary naturally, they haven’t had a real need for vst3 due to the side chain in Abe and no exposure to it for that very reason. I guess all I’m trying to say is there is little to fear about vst3 now and in 6 months you will all be using it and wonder what all the fuss was about. What ever disaster you may have read in the past is over. Now if only NI would get their act together I would not need to have a huge folder of vst2 just for Maschine.
     
  18. Blue

    Blue Rock Star

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,049
    Likes Received:
    497
    Location:
    France
    If some majors developers like NI Soundtoys,Spectrasonics don't make vst3 plugins,it's for a good reason.It's because vst3 is crap.
    I've read on KVR Urs Heckman (U-He) saying on a forum that there a lot of problems in the vst3 design.He said that some developers now have decided to not release in vst3 anymore,because of its problems.
    Personnally I've experienced a lot of problems with vst3 in S1,like vsti3's built-in arpeggiators(Uhe,Rob Papen for ex.) not synced with my Host(DAW).
    Now I don't use vst(i)3 anymore.

    ###First message fro Urs Heckman :

    Update Jan 10 2019:

    Most of our stuff has transitioned to to stable VST3: Diva, Zebra (+TDZ 6 Zebralette), Repro, Hive, Satin, Presswerk, Colour Copy, Twangström. The remaining payware - ACE, Bazille, Uhbik, MFM and Filterscape - should follow later this year and free/magware (other than Zebralette) depend on, well, schedules...

    But now we're also faced with new developments in VST3-land. VST3 now officially supports MIDI Learn. We will try to sneak that in at some point, but it will take some time until everything gets updated again after this. Same for the bug where CTRL A/B choices only work with CC#2 and CC#11 (the old Breath Controller and Expression Pedal)

    - U


    Update March 4th 2016:

    A preliminary version of our VST3 rewrite has gone in internal beta testing today. It is supposed to resolve all stability problems that we had with VST3. As promised, the VST3 rewrite was the main priority after the big maintenance update we did in August, and it looks like it's nearly done.

    However, as of now we are going to handle MIDI Learn differently in VST3 than in other formats. VST3 does not directly support MIDI input for plug-ins, but parameters can be assigned to MIDI controllers. This is cool, but it doesn't let us perform MIDI learn. So far we used a workaround (i.e. assign 128 x 16 "fake parameters" to MIDI controllers), but as VST3 evolves we think it won't be necessary for much longer. Hence we might temporarily provide MIDI assignments only via the list editor in our new VST3 layer.

    We'll keep you posted!

    - Urs

    #---- original post below ----

    Hi all,

    It's a bit more than half a year since we first released VST3 versions of pretty much all our plug-ins.

    In the aftermath we must admit that we've been too ambitious with this. There's always a niggle left and fixing that niggle brings up a new problem with side effects. The reason is, we tried to support the VST3 feature of full separation between UI and DSP. This has worked well for us in AU and AAX, but we messed up in VST3. That's because VST3 requires a plug-in to be able to communicate with short breaks between those two parts. We only thought we had that problem covered but alas, over time it dawned on us that this is more complicated than we ever thought. And then it was too late…

    We know by now that (excerpt from our bug tracker):

    - VST3-Versions don't report parameters on preset changes
    - VST3s show Symbols instead of registration info in Wavelab
    - VST3 Plugins crash FL 11 beta
    - VST3 Plugins don't show selected Patch name when project is re-opened

    the list goes on...

    So a decision was made, we need to rewrite the VST3 layer with a "simplified" version of VST3 that is thankfully included in the VST3 SDK from Steinberg. This version does not strictly separate GUI and DSP part, and after some talk with people who sit in the same boat, this is supposed to fix our problems.

    Unfortunately this means considerable work and testing. We'll try to do this early in 2014.

    Until then we recommend to use our VST2 versions whenever possible. They behave and sound the same, and they're pretty tried and tested.

    Cheers,

    - Urs

    [Update: Early in 2014 wasn't possible. The developer in charge with VST3 left us in December 2013 and we yet have to replace him. Training a new developer to the point that is required for the task will take several months]


    ###One more message fro U-He:

    The flaw is an ongoing struggle with bugs that people report affecting only the VST3 versions of our plug-ins. We fix one, another one pops up. Pretty much all VST3-specific ones are related to the way of communication between UI and DSP within a VST3 plug-in.


    If you want more informations about this discussion,please read this link :
    https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=398532
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  19. Moonlight

    Moonlight Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,270
    Likes Received:
    330
    Location:
    Earth
    From the u-he Zebra Installer (related):


    Important information about the VST3 version
    --------------------------------------------

    We recently rewrote our VST3 layer from scratch. The original implementation had some flaws, so we followed Steinberg's recommendation to adapt it to our specific requirements...

    Unfortunately, we had to cut down on the MIDI Learn functions. Although its user interface is available in our VST3 plug-ins, nothing happens because VST3 doesn’t use raw MIDI data. In order to receive MIDI Control Changes (CC), the plug-in needs to report hundreds of special parameters to the host - one for each CC in each MIDI channel! A clumsy workaround. As this is a common issue, we proposed that Steinberg extend the VST3 standard with a MIDI Learn option. Until this is directly implemented in VST3 hosts, MIDI Learn is only available in the VST2, AU and AAX versions of our plug-ins.

    Settings assigned in any of the other plug-in formats will be adopted by the VST3 version, however. This means you can set up your controllers using the VST2/AU/AAX version, then replace it with the VST3 version afterwards!
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  20. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,875
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Location:
    Europe
    What I get from people opinions is:

    1) The new features of VST3 seem to be good. I understand when users and developers say that some of the features can be done in VST2. Mainly to disconnect the plugin when there's no input signal and side-chaining. But with VST3 you're forced to do so, and VST2 side-chaining is a work-around.

    2) (Part of) the implementation sucks. Plugin and DAW developers don't like some apparently really really bad things, like the MIDI learn thing from U-He's devs.
     
Loading...
Loading...