hello, so i was using fab filter pro-g, and i was wondering one thing.

imagine i have: SYNTH A, playing chords, and SYNTH B, playing a rhythm. ok?
i'm using SYNTH B as the sidechain to pro-g, applied to SYNTH A, so I hear SYNTH B's rhythm into SYNTH A's sound. the problem with this setup is that pro-G doesn't allow me to "adjuts volume", it's simply, well, A GATE: the sound either passes through or not.

i really don't know how to call what i want to achieve. i guess a simple trancegate. and now some people smarter than me would tell me to use shaperbox or other imaginative tools, and i would agree. but i have my reasons to do it like this. besides what if I want a change in rhythm, a little variation, etc?

let's review:

Synth A · rhythm
Synth B · sustained/chords

i want Synth B volume to be triggered by the volume from Synth A (which ofc doesn't go to the master). now that I think about it I think i could do it directly into the daw, but shouldn't there be a way to do it with pro-G? lol i tried using the compressor instead and i got the opposite result

c u peace

 

I want to open Logic and try this. But do you know how easy Nicky Romero Kickstart makes half of EDM types of Sidechain effects? because damn. Where was it for Cubase SX ;]

 

hello clone, thanks. who talked about edm?? i think you got me wrong.

i don't want to the bass to be ducked when the kick comes in. i want the bass to play ONLY when the kick comes in. (in my example the synths. i managed to Get it righytt with pro-g, but then I have no control over the volume). can kickstart do this? i have kickstart somewhere, or maybe lfotool, but im trying to learn only a few select tools so once i learn them a bit better id probably buy them, less is good no? cheers

 

I meant the "style" in terms of how plugins are often used to do these types of sidechain effects. And the "trancegate" effect you mention, surely it is not from Death Metal.

I want to set it up and try it out so I do not give you answers that are wrong. one little detail on this and it will not work right. Like sometimes you will see people trying to use a side chained compressor and leaving lookahead on , and then cannot figure out why it is not reacting the way they expect. as an example.

I really like to use the NI Solid Bus compressor for this sometimes. It has a separate sidechain input signal gain.

 

Last edited: Jan 25, 2022

i think it's a very powerful technique! yes. a lot of trance songs from the 90s used it. from what i read and from what a few producers from that era told me, they used to trigger, let's say, a choir sound with a hi hat pattern or a noise generator, with a gate. so this is different than compression, it's just a simple gate.

what i want to achieve is the same, but with more control over the volume. so if the rhythm sequence of the hi hats is playing the first note slightly louder, then the gate should play that first note slightly higher. this is not the case with pro-g, maybe i'm doing something im something wrong, but i cant find any options. Of course i could record what i want and then tweak the volume by hand, modulate it, whatever, but that's cumbersome, i would do it if i had no other choice but im sure there must be a way, no?

 

yes, firstly; since you are using MIDI synths/sampler; you also have the option of using the velocity of each midi note on message to use for modulations. For hats, you also have the option of using a synthesizer to generate white noise and use that for your "hat". you can also slide that layer behind your real hats samples and never even hear it, but it will function as your compressor trigger. 20 different ways for everything. One thing I really like to do is ramp all the settings on the compressor WAY exaggerated so you can see the compressor reacting to the side chain input signal. Then you just dial it back to the gain reduction/compression settings you want. With something like nice Chords, it's almost more of a vibrato than a big squashed sort of thing. I have lookahead OFF and it is working correctly.


So you have your project set like this:

 

Last edited: Jan 25, 2022

I haven't done it, as I don't really have any need to, but sounds like you'd want to do a sidechained upward expander. Just set that button on the right to 'Upward'. Of course, route your "Synth B" or whatever it is into the fabfilter-pro G's Ext sidechain. You will have to play with threshold, ratio, range to actually HEAR any expansion on "Synth A". And of course there will be other adjustments such as attack, etc. to get the sound you're looking for.

 

Last edited: Jan 25, 2022

Pro-G has attack, release, knee, ratio and range (and sidechain eq and midi triggering for more precision). If these won't let you customize the sound you're after (from what you describe they should be perfectly enough for the job), then either you don't know what you're after, or a dynamic processor is not the way to do it. You could chain an expander (like pro-mb) after the gate to get more volume variation. But the most easy and precise solution is to just draw volume automation on that sound.

 

Right dev, wrong plugin. Try Pro-MB in Expand mode. Create one band, full range and pull it down. This will mute the target when there's no note from the source.
The Pro-MB settings and the velocities of the source are a bit tricky to set but it works. Lower velocities can result in a lower triggered sound.

If I understand you correctly, you need a target level automation triggered by the source level. This could probably be done directly, depending on the DAW and its automation abilities - or with a volume plugin if that comes with a sidechain.

 

Last edited: Jan 25, 2022

so could he have possibly known to use an expander, rather than his sc compression idea; because his initial attempt did exactly the opposite of what he wanted?

 

I'm late to the game, but don't you just want an enveloper? Like the free EnveLover, which is a MIDI controlled gate (put it on the pad synth and send the drums/rhythm midi to its "sidechain"). It's fun.
https://pressplay-music.com/envelover/

 

Hi, thanks for all the answers, I wasn't in the best shape yesterday night
None of the solutions here work for what I've been thinking, I fear. To put it simply: I want the volume of audio A be the same as audio B.
Example scenario:

A: sustained pad sound
B: 000 - 000 - 111 - 222

0 = no audio
1 = audio at normal volume
2 = audio at higher volume

The result should be
C: no sound - no sound - pad - PAD

I'm no expert about MIDI but I don't care about the velocity of the notes of audio B (if I'm playing a synth, but it could also be an audio source), since it doesn't take into account attack and release.

Yes. I'll look around for any gain/level plugins. Thanks everybody
-- Ok, it looks like everything is about ducking the volume... when I have time I'll make my own lol

 

Err, you may think I just assumed what I suggested, but no, I reproduced it, it does works. When I'm back I could upload an audio file and a screenshot.

Nope, you need the opposite of a ducker/gate, you need an upward expander (or a volume plugin). No/low source level -> no/low target level, high source level -> high target level.

 

But isn't the one you did with MIDI? You talked about velocities. Tonight I'll check it out!
Sorry for doubting your wisdom guys, I honestly think I explained myself wrong.

Added a picture.
There has to be a simple way to simply transfer the volume of the Rhythm (b) to the Pad (a)... why no MIDI you guys asked, well, it's not just a gate, it has release. Why not volumeshapers, lfotool etc? Yes there are thousands of ways to do this, but drawing the curve etc again and again... I have done things ten times worse than this when I actually needed to do it, so it's not a necessity of course, there are ways to do this, manually, and if I come up with an idea I would just automate it manually right now. But I think having this option to make it much more quick would be a lot of fun and maybe sparks some new ideas. to avenger: haven't tried yet the pro-MB trick you said, but then again, if I switch sample I would have to go back again and adjust all the knobs,

and if there's not a simple way I swear I'm going to learn how to program a vst just to make it. personal challenge

 

Last edited: Jan 25, 2022

https://zeeks.app. it has a midi trigger, maybe quite usefull either

 

Ah, now I understand better. Yes and no. The trigger part was MIDI but I routed the audio to Pro-MB's external sidechain input. I've choosen MIDI so I've better control about the output signal level, that's all. When there is no note the target remains dead silent, IOW, no/low source audio level results in no/low target audio level. That's what you're looking for, right?

The trick with Pro-MB is

 

Did you try what I had suggested in post 7? I'm not sure if I missed something you're wanting this to do, but I'd tested it myself and Synth "A" plays normal until Synth B plays, then as it plays, Synth A is made louder. Just for some context, in my test, Synth A is just a sustained sawtooth, so you can see the difference easily.

Fabfilter Pro-G can be used as a gate or an expander. Like I said, you just have to turn the mode to "upward". Send in your signal to the external chain (I also UNcheck Enable MIDI).. adjust the settings to taste and it should work:

Rendered wave comparisons:
https://i.imgur.com/YbSiNr9.png

Fabfilter Pro-G:
https://i.imgur.com/hIENPh7.png

Here's a gif of the effect in action:
https://imgur.com/a/SxzgPHQ


Is there something this doesn't do for you? This is not ducking. Also, as noted already, there's more than one way to skin a cat.. so I'm not suggesting that there aren't other ways, or possibly even better ways. Just this seems to do what you're looking for.

 

Last edited: Jan 25, 2022

@No Avenger I did what you told suggested, but you could still hear some of the original sound, since the knobs doesn't go all the way down to -inf dB.

@naitguy I did this this morning real quick, and as above, you still have Synth A playing, the source. I want that to be completely quiet and only play/react with the volume of Synth B.

@justwannadownload Just trying this, it's exactly what I wanted! Perfect! I saved the settings as a preset.

Thanks everybody who contributed to the thread. I knew there had to be a quick and easy way. I know it's a weird request, but think of how fast it is now. Instead of drawing curves or sending MIDI or record yourself playing EVERY TIME, now you can just switch patterns/audio sources and everything is automatic. I find this extremely useful, just get a sustained sound and then go crazy. Good for inspiration. Save the audio, chop it up, or put some delay on it, adjust the envelope follower or even the source material/the audio that triggers the rhythm, and you have COMPLETE control over EVERYTHING.

! cheers

 

So, here's the effect. First part without Pro-MB, second with (sorry for the weird looking synth wave, I'm a noob ).


Oh, almost forgotten, the trigger was a BD (two shorter than the others).

Err, that's correct. Then use an additional downward expander or the gate.

 

Last edited: Jan 25, 2022