Vinyl vs. Digital (PCM and others)

Discussion in 'Music' started by martel80, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. Aliens

    Aliens Guest

    Thread needs more 'empathy'

    :lmao:
     
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  2. Aliens

    Aliens Guest

    lol

    Hoist by your own petard :like:

    "Shakespeare's phrase, "hoist with his own petard," is an idiom that means "to be harmed by one's own plan to harm someone else" or "to fall into one's own trap", implying that one could be lifted (blown) upward by one's own bomb, or in other words, be foiled by one's own plan."
     
  3. Herr Durr

    Herr Durr Guest

    guess I'm dumb.. is this just a deeper and more passionate debate of vinyl vs digital?

    Since I have been a long time vinyl junkie, and still consider vinyl to be superior, I am giving @martel80 credit for his arguments... though not the personal attacks. Somehow I feel since.. reality is based on a quantum granularity, rather than truncated digits, vinyl therefore ( in some way I cannot explain ) captures a deeper and more detailed reflection of "reality, " in this case..the integrity of the sound.. dynamic range..or whatever you wish to call it... and no it is not the imperfections, pops, hisses or whatever that makes people like vinyl... it is that something that is still there additional to a digital rendering..

    call me ignorant or whatever.. I hear what I hear... and feel what I feel.. and I don't get off on vinyl "noise" it is something
    entirely different and additive that is coming through...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2016
  4. Iggy

    Iggy Rock Star

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    I don't think @martel80 's approach was all that great, but what he's saying is fairly valid. Stuff on vinyl has less processing than CD or direct-to-digital commercial masters, and online FLAC recordings from vinyl make better comparison masters against your own 96 kHz/24-bit mixes than, say, a CD rip or especially an .mp3. I still say there are plenty of other options out there, like HD audio, but @martel80 definitely has the right idea. it's just that laying down a ground assault on the entire forum when you post that idea isn't such a great thing.
     
  5. Cav Emp

    Cav Emp Audiosexual

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    What I read in the first half a page is a guy asking for opinions, then insulting people with a different opinion. Then getting all triggered when everyone called him out on being an asshole.

    edit: Merry Xmas :rofl:
     
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  6. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    Actually I would like to hear something you did alone start to finish. That is how most of us work here. If you truly did more than place a few mics or coordinate a drink order in the control room...... prove it.
    I bet your attitude kick you out of the biz? You won an award in 2000 and now doing a 'shift' somewhere?
     
  7. Cav Emp

    Cav Emp Audiosexual

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    Oh, I dont know, somewhere around...


    there?
     
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  8. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    Wow that was fast. I just had to report martel80 and the thread disappeared almost instantly.
    Dude uploaded some Kontakt sound banks insinuating it was from 'a sound designer friend for the rich and famous'.......
    They were still for sale on line. Obviously didn't get permission.......what a dick.
    All he seeks is an ass kissing from his uploads. Poor guy. Let's all just give him praise, he obviously needs it.

    Maybe he will respond after his Wal-mart greeter 'shift'.
     
  9. G String

    G String Rock Star

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    Perhaps a bit off topic, but 'quantum granularity' is surely very much like digital with its 'truncation'. A single photon (a light quanta) is a very direct corollary of a digital bit. A quantum granule cannot be smaller. It is either a quanta or it is not. A certain amount of energy makes a light quanta. Call it a "1". An insufficient amount of energy, and it's a zero. Or vice versa. When atoms combine (fusion) there is a very definite amount of energy needed to make the new element, and the exact surplus is "thrown away" as radiation, whatever. Truncation?

    But needles and vinyl are not quantum objects, they're macro ones - so they're analogue and don't display the same characteristics. So, the cuts in the vinyl are effectively infinitely rich. You could take infinite measurements of the cut in vinyl, or the sound wave out of the speakers, etc.

    But analogue isn't analogue at small size. It's granular - it's quantum. Apparently even time and space itself is granular at the planck level. Time and space have a minimum "packet size". Apparently. So, there's no escaping it. ;)
     
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  10. Herr Durr

    Herr Durr Guest

    I am using that quantum granularity as more of an analogy in this case, as certainly phonographs are not quantum entities
    as you point out. I am saying I perceive more detail and depth from analog gear, I think because generally it does capture
    a more complete representation of reality, in the case of music.. sound reproduction. Also .. I think the preference people
    have for it, is something beyond mere "imperfections" as compared to digital reproduction. There is something, or somethings
    digital is not capturing. (redundant i know.. better knock off the egg nog )

    The digital crowd would likely just tell me that I am delusional, and that's ok... or maybe my subjective experience, and that of others is valid, and we just don't have an adequate way to explain it. I am sure there are some people with physics degrees around here who might be able to address this? ( or maybe not)

    A quantum level of granularity is ultimately what reality is composed of...and it does not simply involve photons as the
    only player in the quantum realm. And, I would submit, this level of detail is still far beyond what humans can achieve.
    Perhaps when we get to some quantum computed digital music, we may find that sound reproduction takes on some more
    unexpected fidelity.. I think it's not terribly forward thinking to believe we have achieved the best sounds possible with
    current digital technology.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2016
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  11. G String

    G String Rock Star

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    Vinyl sounds nice. ;)
     
  12. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro Staff Member

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    I think we can still make this into an interesting discussion, sans unnecessary drama, so no need to close this. :yes:
    I'm not kidding, this thread actually motivated me a bit to give this vinyl release a chance. :mates:

    Technically more advanced doesn't mean automatically better, that's for subjective evaluation. It wasn't my intention to imply that vinyl is bad - just that speaking in numbers, it tend to perform worse and it takes special care for it to sound good, see my previous reply for the whole thing.
     
  13. G String

    G String Rock Star

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    I'm a retarded fuck? And I pushed to remove the links?

    Pffft. Obviously I can take being called a "retarded fuck" better than Martel can take a word of advice. Man, some people are uppity.
     
  14. Immunity

    Immunity Member

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  15. kjfarrell

    kjfarrell Platinum Record

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    I think it's really sad, I've always thought Martel80 to be a good contributor to discussions. Wether I agreed with him or not I still respected him. Now his reputation was destroyed in an instant, I suppose a leopard always shows his spots in the end. Christmas does some strange things to people sometimes, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt if he ever comes back.

    @Andrew I've enjoyed your input mate, I've argued these points quite vocally for many years. I grew up in a time before CD's was a reality. The glorification of Vinyl these days is unfounded, and shrouded in misinformation. I suspect a marketing ploy here, I've noticed a lot of vinyl releases lately.

    I detest the distortion you get from the inner rings of a record, I thought I was the only one hearing it until I listened to Ian Sheppard's podcast. I hold him as high a standard as Pensado and Maserati, but for Mastering.

     
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  16. Immunity

    Immunity Member

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    If You haven't already, check out the Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon at 432Hz, You may hear the difference :wink:
     
  17. kjfarrell

    kjfarrell Platinum Record

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    Then check out this

     
  18. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro Staff Member

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    @kjfarrell Might be interesting to compare cut vinyl vs. pressed vinyl. Cut recording promises fewer imperfections as it's not affected by dust particles during recording process.
    Thanks for the video, definitely useful!
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  19. kjfarrell

    kjfarrell Platinum Record

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  20. Immunity

    Immunity Member

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    Very sympathetic, I have to admit I'm a VERDI person, definitely Not a Joseph Goebbels :excl:
    The test video was not adequate at all, the audio duration of some seconds & played in different tunes was simply to fool You :dont:
     
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