Vintage Sampler Sound Emulation

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by Retrolize77, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Retrolize77

    Retrolize77 Platinum Record

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    Im actually selling my beloved Akai S 950 due to money / space issues, unfortunatly.
    And it’s killing me no1 yet was able to emulate the sound of it (12 bit, A/D Converter) in a convenient way, as a plugin.
    Not sure if it’s possible technically, but I hope for it, love the sound of that 12 bit era so much, and would like to combine it with the modern day workflow.
    So, please share some knowledge of maybe upcoming projects with this subject if you can, always eager for more info.
    D16 Decimort isn’t that bad, along with Tal Sampler, but it’s not even close.
     
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  3. thejohndoe

    thejohndoe Member

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    I still have all my samplers (and getting an Emulator soonish)but TAL sampler really is a good emulation.i was anticipating being disappointed by it considering the company who made it (TAL Audio)did 2 piss poor emulations of the SH101 and the Juno(latter being a total joke,especially the filter)but TAL Sampler is definitely on par with my samplers.i have zero qualms with it
     
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  4. Amirious

    Amirious Producer

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  5. Acid

    Acid Member

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    TAL sampler is great, you could also sample in mono, load it into NI Battery, pitch it up +7 semi tones, bounce the file, change the sample rate to 22050, re-load it back into battery, switch the engine to use SP1200 emulation mode, pitch it back down -7 semi tones. Sounds great, little compression & eq etc, works for me anyway, but no-one really cares except us gear/audio nerds, people listening to the music aren't thinking ... hmmm that doesn't sound exactly like an SP 1200 or mpc 60.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
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  6. Amirious

    Amirious Producer

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    @Acid why are you suggesting repitching before resampling? And why it has to be done in Battery?
     
  7. Retrolize77

    Retrolize77 Platinum Record

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    thx, will try it
    Sounds like you know what you are doing, I can follow you I guess.
    The magic trick on the original machines was to sample stuff highpitched, and play it pitched down again, to save sample time, and to get this special dusty Sound like many 90‘s hiphop records got.
    Battery got a sp12 emulation on Board, i didn’t try yet but I def will!
    Thx for the interesting post!!
     
  8. alex921

    alex921 Kapellmeister

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    When pitching a sample upwards and sampling it, you can get this sort of grainy effect, effectively making the sample play slower. More lo-fi so to speak. It's basically the same effect when you play a sample a few semitones lower.

    The emulations in Kontakt are very good in my opinion. Never used battery 4, but I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same algorithm in Battery.
    I feel your pain, I think the akai s950 is the last model that has analog filters right? Never heard it in real life, but the internet webz is raving about it.

    IMO, most sample libraries sound too clean for my liking.
    What I tend to do for fun is lowering the bit depth, so i'll just convert a specific sample library, to say 8 bit or 12 bit, sometimes I change the sample rate aswell to 33.2 khz , I use Myriad for this, very deep program for this kinda stuff. I do like this method actually, and it gives me better results then a plugin from d16, because it sounds too digital/artificial for me.
    Here is a nice article about what i mentioned about lowering bit depth: https://sonicscoop.com/2013/08/29/w...t-you-knew-about-bit-depth-is-probably-wrong/

    Also, I dig the plugin Sonitex STX-1260 alot nowadays.
     
  9. Acid

    Acid Member

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    The old hip-hop/techno/electro/house guys using the early 12 bit mono samplers used to pitch the sample up first to save space on the machine (when a sample is pitched up it plays quicker, takes up less space) then they would tune it back down in the sampler, doing this would add an aliasing sometimes, a sort of ringing sound especially on bass/808/909 kicks etc but also gave sounds a warm crunchy character and punch.

    The only reason I use battery to pitch it up is cos I'll be using it anyway for the SP1200 emulation so why not. The SP-1200 was about 26kHz sample rate, 22.05 is close enough, I usually use adobe audition to batch convert samples.
    Pitching things down in the Sp1200 emulation mode sounds better to me than if you skipped that step and just used the clean sample in SP1200 mode. (NI Battery is emulating the AD/DA and SSM filter chip of the original hardware, you can get real close with fx stuff like decimort too though.)

    You can get 80% of the way there doing this, then I'll usually use PSP vintage warmer, Waves MPX/U-he Satin etc to get 90% you'll only get 100% of that sound using the original hardware, but there's also a placebo effect involved with using the original hardware too.

    It's not my file, but I've attached a comparison .wav, first 2 snares & kicks are dry, then it's using the sp1200 emu technique in battery, then it's original hardware.







     
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  10. Retrolize77

    Retrolize77 Platinum Record

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    Thx bro, appreciated. I had access to a emu emax 1, which sounded great as well, nearly like a sp1200, maybe a bit less harsh & warmer, fortunately I sampled a good bunch of favorite drumsounds /breaks on that machine, as well on the s 950, so when i need that grit, I got it right there on the MacBook.
    But it’s not only the drums, I love what 12bit machines can do to jazz/soul/funk samples.
    Such a specific /organic vibe to it. Maybe listening habits is part of the equation, as I always love Pete rock , dj premier, Kev brown
    Kind of soundscapes, not too much going on up the 10.000 hz , meens much space for lyrics. Maybe that’s also why the 12bit sound is so beloved.
    Whatever, I will check for that plugin, never heard of it yet, excited.
    ✌️ Peace
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  11. Retrolize77

    Retrolize77 Platinum Record

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    @admin: Please delete , double post
    Thx
     
  12. Amirious

    Amirious Producer

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    @Acid thanks for detailed explanation! have an upvote :like:
     
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  13. Terrordisco

    Terrordisco Newbie

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  14. maximoman

    maximoman Noisemaker

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    Nice, I was just about to recommend this! I used to own an s950 and this comes pretty close to recreating the feel of it. Just wish I could get it to automatically apply filtering like the Akai did when you played really high or low notes. I think it did that to mask the grunginess that would reveal itself when you sampled at low sample rates and played notes that were far from the original sample pitch. Can't remember what it was called but it made everything sound nice and warm.
     
  15. Retrolize77

    Retrolize77 Platinum Record

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    Whoa, thx for posting. Looking interesting, would like to check it out someday, especially on single drum hits.
    Dope
     
  16. Nana Banana

    Nana Banana Producer

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    On that page it says: "The red input gain knob adds S950’s unique grit character with a warm, non-linear soft-distortion". I remember back when I had an Akai, a Mirage, and an EII, no one said it was "Warm", well, except for the Curtis filter chips in the latter two. Most everyone said they hated how gritty it was, and wished we had better AD/DA Converters for better clarity. Fast forward to now ...We have better Converters, and "Gritty" turns into "Warm", and everyone wants it back. I'm wondering if it's nostalgia, or because it was unique as compared to now, or both. I do miss my old Mirage. OMG that sampler put the "Dirty" in "Grit" period :rofl::wink:
     
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