I'll ignore the fact that you are wrong and just believing what you want to believe and I shall humour you for a bit.....so tell me, why is it that big breweries declare that their drinks are not vegan or vegetarian friendly? If what you say is true, what is it that makes then non-vegan and non-vegetarian then, in your expert opinion seeing that you seem insistent on the fact that you know better than them what is in their product?

 

And that's a shame. It would be so nice to just have a relaxed conversation. I mean, this is actually about a dead woman, isn't it? And already someone has to make a fanatical fight out of it. But why? I don't know. I guess some can't admit to themselves that they have an eating disorder as a vegan and try to talk the others into some kind of guilt. Which is not to say every vegan is eating disordered, but for many it seems to be exactly that, or they wouldn't make such a drama out of it. Seriously, I don't care who eats what or not. Nowadays, almost everyone has some kind of disorder. And that is a pity. But what is even more sad is that you can't even talk about the fact that someone very likely died from their eating disorder without someone having to put that on an almost religious level.

 

Because some of them use gel. And they are not the big breweries. It's a few breweries. And even fewer breweries use gel from fish. And even fewer use isinglass. Most use vegetable products. It even says the same thing in the article you linked to. And I have said exactly that from the beginning of this discussion.

 

Very objective and straight to the point. The problem is this unproductive exacerbation of conflict, all this miserable polarization. Meat eaters love to make fun of vegans/vegetarians/etc, while the latter always claim some kind of moral/philosophical/spiritual superiority. It is very difficult to establish a constructive dialogue in this way. Both sides feel entitled to remain in their positions of aggravation. Perhaps it really is better to refrain from a discussion when we are simply not able to reach a common denominator. I ate a lot of red meat in past and never thought I would be a vegetarian, but hey, here I am, without eating animal meat for over 17 years. These are the discoveries of life. For me, necessity was the mother of transformation. For someone else, this transformation thing may not even occur and as long as everyone is aware of your own choices (and this is where the biggest problem lies, as a huge portion of people think that eating foods that deposit nitrous compounds with carcinogenic, mutagenic, teratogenic and embryopathic action in the blood doesn't cause long-term problems, but when faced with an illness, are apt to blame parents, spouse and even God before doing a self-analysis of their own bad habits), that's fine. Get on with your life, as best you can... Always try to be the best version of yourself. Peaceout!

 

First post:

Last post after 7 pages:

 

@Bunford @famouslut...dudes...I was a vegan for almost 7 years. My post was not meant to criticize or cause any division but to rather express how difficult it might be for some to adhere to a vegan diet. I myself was fucking sooo hungry because there wasn't much at all for me to eat for five days on a road trip with my family to a family reunion in West Virginia in 1983. Potatoes and bad lettuce was my fare.

 

This is either disingenuous or deluded, and it's sad that you can't see that. You say "that's a shame", but it is you doing it. This person died of an eating disorder resulting from mental health issues; it has nothing to do with her being vegan. That is just coincidental, just how carnivores, omnivores, herbivores all die of eating disorders after suffering bouts of ill mental health. You are the one reluctant to have a relaxed conversation, insisting there is a causality between veganism and her death from an eating disorder due to mental health, when there is zero evidence of that apart from any you have invented in your head, unless you know more than the person's family, friends, and all the journalists that have published the story?!?! You again, restate in this post that she has "an eating disorder as a vegan" to try and force a link between "eating disorder" and "vegan", when there is no evidence of this. You cannot seem to comprehend that eating disorders happen to allsorts of people, vegan or otherwise, and is a mental health condition that is unrelated to their specific diet.

There is no religious spiel here. I am not invested in it at all. I just call out things when people are factually inaccurate and misinform others, and saying that she died of an easting disorder brought on by mental health illness and being vegan was a cause of this, at least partly, is absurd (and it's you who used the word "causality" and keep trying to shoehorn a link between a mental health condition, i.e. an eating disorder, and an arbitrary dietary choice followed for thousands of years by millions of people).

As I said right at the start of this thread, the story is very sad and tragic, and what's more sad is that people (like yourself) try to make it a political/righteous opportunistic statement to attack and blame veganism for her death (as clearly you have an axe to grind against veganism) when it has nothing to do with the mental health induced eating disorder that she ended up dying from.

I'm just going to leave this here for you to educate yourself a bit. Read the very first sentence (and the rest of it hopefully), where you will see that an eating disorder is medically considered by the World of science and medicine to be an eating disorder, and that there is zero references to any specific diet or eating choices to cause eating disorders: Overview – Eating disorders - NHS (www.nhs.uk)

 

Last edited: Aug 4, 2023

Again, you are being intentionally disingenuous or deluded. Nobody ever said all beers are not vegan friendly. @famouslut even referred to websites like Barnivore that help identify which ones are vegan friendly. You seem to struggle with comprehending nuances, and that not everything is either all in or all out. It is fact that some beers, including some by big brewers like Fosters, as they say themselves, are not vegan friendly because they contain isinglass, which is fish swim bladder collagen protein, be it flakes, slithers, or however you want to describe it; it still is what it is. That is all that was ever said, and is factually accurate and correct, yet you seem insistent on ranting for several pages that you know better than the rest of the World and that this is inaccurate, despite the manufacturers themselves telling you otherwise. Sometimes things just are a lost cause and this is starting to feel a bit like trying to explain the facts about the EU to Nigel Farage....

 

Last edited: Aug 4, 2023

It can be difficult, but 1983 is very different to now in terms of choices, availability, and options to reduce unnecessary harm, be it to the environment, ecology, animals, or ourselves (even outside veganism/vegetarianism, and think options around reducing tobacco toxins, reduced sugar and salt options, and so on). I would also argue that some parts of the World have successfully normalised vegan/plant based diets for thousands of years for millions of people that had way less options than West Virginia in 1983 and would sneer at your struggling to last 5 days Seriously though, I have a family member who has been vegan for almost 40 yeas and goes on 3 or 4 holidays abroad per year all over the World and has always managed to survive and they are, erm, how can I say this politely.....erm, what is the opposite of wasting away?

 

Last edited: Aug 4, 2023

Depends on where in WV, in some parts it still is 1893 and in the rest it still is 1983.

I am not picking on WV specifically, everything west of Charlottesville in VA is 1893 and when you pass Blacksburg it's still 1793. That goes for that entire area it's like a time machine.

Though I have to agree that there are more options now but that's only if you are cooking for yourself. That's not a given at a family reunion.

Either way everyone seems pretty set in their ways and has gone in circles for so long when it started with a poor woman who had an eating disorder and body dysphoria. It had nothing to do with the mode of sustenance she chose, she profited from being unhealthy and the adulation she got created a feedback loop that eventually lead to her demise.

We all have to go someway, one way is as good as any other.

 

Some of them do, sometimes.

Just like the other way round. Some of the meat eaters go much further than just making fun of those who don't eat meat.

The meat eaters are a distinct majority and, consequently, the way this sad story is presented is an example of normalcy of such malicious manipulation.

 

Sorry to be a bit abusive, but are you really that ****? It really pisses me off how you insinuate statements that I have never made or pick out parts of a statement and ignore the rest in order to distort it. Frutarianism is a special, and unfortunately widespread form of vegan diet and known for the fact that it can lead to a whole series of health problems, because a whole series of nutrients and minerals can not be supplied. This woman has taken this form of malnutrition to the extreme. And I never said that this poor woman died directly from her diet. Or that veganism leads to death. I expressed my opinion and said that her vegan (yes, frutarianism IS vegan) eating disorder - and yes, I call it an eating disorder, since there is not a single sensible argument for this kind of malnutrition - can be assumed with high probability to be one of several accompanying factors that can be considered for death. Context, bro! What is ultimately the cause of death is for doctors to decide (not me, not you, not jornalists, and not her parents). I have also said that - several times.
I have never spoken disparagingly against veganism as such or made factual claims about a direct cause of death. Veganism has both advantages and disadvantages. I never claimed that all vegans were frutarians or that a vegan could not eat a balanced and healthy diet. This woman, even if the direct cause of death lies elsewhere, is unfortunately the no longer living proof of the disadvantages that CAN arise when one follows an extreme diet. What is so hard to understand about this? No politics or religion involved!

Seriously? I'm struggling with nuances? It is not me who is struggling with nuances. Fosters does not use isinglass in the EU, AUS, or US. Fosters UK used isinglass 10 years ago. Some time has passed since then. Fosters UK has changed ownership and adjusted their statement. They now say it is not vegan, which makes no statement about the use of isinglass. I therefore think that the statement "Fosters uses isinglass" not only lacks any nuance, but is also false. Likewise, the statement "dead fish in beer" lacks any nuance and is also - you guessed it - false. And beer is filtered through piss pouch? That's not only unnuanced and wrong, it's disinformation. And I could go on forever, yes a certain slut provides enough of this material - after the first few posts that were quite balanced. And I assume that this is done quite deliberately. It was not me who started to act aggressively here. It was not me who started condemning others for eating animals. It was not me who constantly talks about how horrible and disgusting and violent and unhealthy eating animals is. It was not me who made stupid and exaggerated claims about fish organs in beer. It was not me talking about products without having any idea about them and having to google them first. It was not me who claimed that gel would give flavor to the beer. It was not me who says isinglass makes the beer particularly clear and at the same time talks about isinglass residues in the beer. It was not me who deliberately misunderstands an internationally used term. It was not me who focused on subordinate clauses of my statements and ignored my overall statement to turn it upside down. It was not me making up conspiracy theories. It was not me making a bold statement about an internationally available beer brand that is under multiple ownerships and whose production processes differ locally. It was not me citing 10 year old data as proof of a claim AFTER I pointed out that such a statement is based on outdated data (because the brand's ownership and public statements have changed). It was not me who makes claims and leaves questions unanswered to make the next claim. It was not me who cited a study as evidence without having read it. It was not me who confused the limit with the result, spreading disinformation. It was not me who picks out a single sentence from a study as evidence, ignoring the surrounding sentences that put this sentence into context.

Do you notice anything? It was not me who hijacked this thread. So please direct your accusations to the correct address. Thank you. I'm done here.

 

Last edited: Aug 4, 2023

My comment was made with reference to this article I've posted previously:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/devin...em-with-being-vegetarian-is-other-vegetarians

When asked if he considers himself to be a vegetarian activist, Devin replied:

❝No. In fact, I'm the opposite of that, I think. I find that people who are active about such things run the risk of preaching, and I have no religious interests whatsoever. I think that religion is incredibly cruel, and I think that my biggest problem with being vegetarian, usually, is other vegetarians. Because I find, a lot of times, humans in general are… life isn't easy for anybody, so a lot of people are doing what they can do in order to get by. And I think that when somebody actively tries to convince other people that what they're doing in their life is not as relevant as what they're doing in their life, it's in my mind very similar to religion — it's like, 'Because you're not like me, you're wrong.' (...)

It's like, when people have that agenda, it's very easy for the fallibility of them to be called into question. If somebody puts themselves out as a martyr or as a sort of religious, perfect human being, it's only a matter of time before somebody finds a YouTube video of them, like, jacking off in a toilet or something, you know what I mean?! It's like, we're humans, man — we're, like, simple creatures.❞

Yes, i agree with you. And the biggest problem is that people sometimes don't really do what they could to live/survive better (choices - only understanders will understand). But I didn't go into details so as not to argue even more (as you can see, the moods are exalted)...

 

Last edited: Aug 4, 2023

who cares if you eat meat or if you are vegan

 

Clearly, the number of pages of this non-music related post on a music forum contradicts your claim, but everything is fine!

 

The sentient, feeling animals who are tortured and killed for something as trivial as taste pleasure?

I think I finally get where you're coming from, Sinus Wall. You were talking about the best gel evah!

Well, it wasn't (just) for rhetorical effect. So far as appearance goes, can you tell which is the human bladder, and which is the swim bladder?



So long as this membrane is dried into sth as innocuous-sounding as a "gel", apparently this makes beer far more appetising! Yum!

 

Last edited: Aug 5, 2023

Just wanna say I have microplastics in my ballz

Edited: shout out to @capitan crunch for rating this... well

 

Last edited: Aug 6, 2023