LiveLogicLoopsTools
I've seen the documents online that the FISA court (which is supposed to have oversight) rubber stamped and many senators and judges have called it unconstitutional. You've actually hinted at the main problem: that people have become apathetic to what many consider the status quo. Well I'm here to tell you that no it isn't normal, it shouldn't be going on and me and people like me will do everything in our power to stop it. Maybe we'll succeed, maybe we won't but what we won't do is sit here like a pack of whipped dogs waiting for our lives to be decided by the corrupt. I am against all forms of government surveillance and I vehemently oppose security cameras in my building as well as Google's policy on privacy so much so that I don't even use Google anymore. People that know me know what I'm about: getting back to basics. And concerning we being afraid you should really read this article: Why ‘I Have Nothing To Hide’ Is The Wrong Way To Think About Surveillance. Edward peeled back the facade and let an important conversation begin and that has changed everything. And even though it feels like the end of days...something dies and something is born out of the ashes, it's the way it's always been.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
-George Orwell

westfinch
You're my new best friend.

And you're absolutely right about this kind of music needing more mainstream attention because the crap that the recording industry is putting out is only good for fertilizer. I also really liked your last comment, undoubtedly true.

The Messenger
More than 1,000 views on this article in less than a day alone simply cannot be wrong. For many people this is the extent of their awareness of the news and it's important for them to know. It seems that many of the forum agree with me so I will continue. However if it bothers you feel free to skip them...at least here there's still some freedom left in the world. All the best.

 

Catalyst

Thanx. Can never have enough good friends! I will check in occasionally.

 

it seems like a fox news headline..






Here's my headline: "Terrorism" is a joke.



I said it.



The threat HAS ALWAYS been there, and it always will. The "fear" of terrorism is the US govt's real leverage. They want average US citizens to be horrified and scared that someone is going to blow them up if they leave the house. Remember the "Terror Alert Level" bullshit after 9/11?

Does this not remind ANYONE of george orwell's 1984? A constant imaginary threat to unify and control. Communism worked wonders for years, but it was time to evolve, so the all-encompassing and perfectly ambiguous "Terrorism" was shoehorned into the void.

the partiot act and the homeland security act have nothing to do with ACTUAL terrorism, they are more a way to justify control. Control of domestic population, and control over larger spheres of influence. (what some people call "the new world order" and what eisenhower alluded to with his "military industrial complex")

The thing we have to ask ourselves is, WHY do people blow up buildings? WHY do people sacrifice their own lives to prove "a point"?


The US, MY US where i have grown up and love, has policies that CREATE TERRORISTS.

did i just blow your mind?

Osama Bin Laden, trained by the US CIA to fight Russia.

Remember Ollie North and the whole IRAN/CONTRA affair?

(if not, i question the relevance of any argument you might make to counter mine)

There are too many to name, but we are about to do the same thing with Syrian Rebels.



***

anyway, i could go on and on, but to what purpose?

there is a reason totalitarian regimes conduct "purges" to "alleviate" the state of any "troublesome" intellectuals.

some people understand what is really going on and others... well, i think we can all understand where im going with this.


;)

 

frito
Absolutely my friend. You echo many of the same arguments I have made in the past. The United States government makes terrorists every day and all these laws that have been passed are merely an attempt to ensnare the populace in their caustic grip. In fact I believe KMFDM's song New American Century also is referencing the Project for the New American Century which is a think tank that promotes the kind of bullshit ideology that is being shoved down our throats every minute of every day.

 

Here's my headline: "Terrorism" is a joke.


;)
[/quote]

People lost lives and you call this a joke. Can't believe I even replied to you.

What are y'all revolutionaries actually doing about this "messed up world" you claim to hate and hope to change? You guys know all of the answers, right? Can you please, explain what are you doing? And if not, why haven't you done anything yet, since this crap has been going on for years?

 

LiveLogicsLoopsTools
First of all nobody said that we have all the answers and I myself have pride in the fact that I openly admit when I don't know the answer but am willing to do what it takes to find out. We may not have all the answers but at least we're willing to ask the uncomfortable questions. This is the reason why we are in this mess in the first place because our representatives think they have all the answers and act contrary to what most people believe. What have I done? I've researched important news from around the globe and made critical information available to people that might not have seen it, I've protested in the streets for many a cause, I've written my representatives, I've signed petitions, I've donated to worthy causes like the Electronic Frontier Foundation, I've vehemently opposed companies that were committing evil acts, I've stood firm against animal testing and experimentation, I've spent plenty of my own personal time debating those with differing opinions and I've given hope that another world is possible. I know that's not much but it's been a slow few months.

 

You guys can pinpoint all of the errors, but can't AND won't fix them. Go ahead and call me brainwashed, when you're talking to me via the internet which is being clocked. Edward won't be successful because what he did was just as wrong as the issues you guys point out about the govt.

 

He's already been successful because the truth is out there and nothing not death nor prison can get that cat back in the bag. Also more and more people are awake to what's really going on which gives me hope that things could change. I've already listed all the things I've done and again maybe they will change things and maybe they won't but at least I had a spine to try rather than plugging into the matrix and "trying to be happy"...otherwise known as the mantra of the weak and powerless. It's like perfection: you know you're never going to get there but the most important thing is that you keep trying. If you do that long enough something crazy might happen...like progress. You never know.

 

I respect your ambitions, but ...... man. This will go on forever. I'm really done. We wouldn't even be here if it weren't for animal testing. Again, it's not right, but the bigger picture. Sorry, man. I'm not right, but I feel this way. I'll get back to the music. I appreciate you voicing your opinion while not being disrespectful.

 

We both know that we abuse the shit out of animals because we think we are the higher form of life and that gives us the right. Plenty of experimentation doesn't serve humans and is just the abuse of our power. However maybe one day something else will want to experiment on us so be ready to stand firm. And you have a right to feel how you want as it's a free country (well...). Though I don't agree with your viewpoint I see no reason to be disrespectful as your opinion is just as valid as mine. We need people like you to keep us grounded and you need people like us to shoot for the stars. All the best.

 

wish Snowden good luck ...he is already a hero ...where are the people that once had balls to speak out the truth and fight for it ...WHERE?!?! ...all the world needs right now is people like him ...

 

The joke is that they fooled you. people die every day, across the world. a drunk driver kills a carload of kids. a robber shots a convenience store clerk. a junkie kills a tourist for drug money.


do we need to give up our essential freedoms to be protected from death, and the fear of impending death?

i dont condone any violence whatsoever. I prefer to believe that enlightened individuals can enact change through debate, protest, and perseverance. ive been a pacifist for years now, and i have been jailed numerous times for non-violent protests, where i got my ass beat by riot cops for peaceful constitution-allowed demonstrations. I also write article for Z magazine, have made several websites to combat KEYSTONE XL pipeline, and have helped organized marches against the WTO in portland. i also printed and passed out literature at the occupy rallies in san francisco. also, i donate to my local homeless shelters and food pantires.(at least i used to, now im almost homelsss lol)


The US Govt has killed a vastly inordinate amount of people vs. the ones terrorists kill, have killed, or will kill.


you think its ok to use drone strikes on villages that destroy half the village, including children, just to hopefully get one terrorist? (and to the people of the village the "terrorist" is a "freedom fighter" btw) is it ok because its halfway across the world? is it ok because they dont speak english? dont their lives count for anything?




If you truly love your country, you would die defending it, right? If North Korea attacked us to take us over, replace our govt, and steal all our natural resources, what would you do? Would you fight them? would you take to the streets and never give up until the threat had been defeated,a nd your children could sleep at night in peace?

If you said yes to any of these, then you know how the people of IRAQ felt when the US Military attacked them.


it's not so cut and dry, is it?



btw- i agree, its time to smoke a joint and make some music.

Im tired of making so much common sense.

time to smoke the uncommon sensei.

 

LiveLogicLoopsTools

Wow Man! I don't think anyone here said they achieved a complete govt turn around. I don't see where anyone said they had all the answers. It's JUST a discussion dude. Something we can freely have in the U.S. (at least for now). I have read your comments, and respect your beliefs. I may not agree with all of them, but at least I learn from the comments of everyone. I also try to keep an open mind. I don't have to prove anything I've done in the past, or am involved in now. I have helped change many things in the work place that has helped thousands. Key word is helped. It takes a lot of people to change things. I wear the tag revolutionary with pride, just like our forefathers. Quit attacking and contribute, or at least take a deep breath.

 

The first thing that we all lost to protect our freedom, ..."was our freedom" !!!

 

If you truly love your country, you would die defending it, right? If North Korea attacked us to take us over, replace our govt, and steal all our natural resources, what would you do? Would you fight them? would you take to the streets and never give up until the threat had been defeated,a nd your children could sleep at night in peace?

If you said yes to any of these, then you know how the people of IRAQ felt when the US Military attacked them.

[/quote]
as I told Catalyst, don't address war to me. I have before, been to Afghanistan and Iraq. If you were THERE and you saw and not READ the things that went on there first hand, then we can discuss. Otherwise, don't put me on the spot like that. Again, I want not an ounce of praises for that, but don't test me in that manner.

State however you feel. I'm an optimistic guy, but nothing will become of Edward's efforts. Trying to enlighten me in patronizing/sarcastic ways won't change the government. It'll change nothing.

 

Bottom line is: Nobody's free. Nothing's free. We're all under control in a way or manner of some sort. I've stated a billion times that the US gov't isn't perfect, nor are they right for doing the things they do, but these rebuttals are getting repetitive.

Soon as people found out that the gov't wanted Verizon customer's docs, people went crazy... like..... this.... is new, or a shocker, or it's not right. Yes, it's wrong, but why not do this decades ago?

This all came from calling this coward a "Hero." He's brave, huh? But why is he still on the run? Because he KNOWS what he did was wrong. Sad, that some of you who live here still do, or those who don't, have family here who are probably doing really good.

Edward probably... I say probably, or potentially started something that may adversely affect you and I who have totally diff views BOTH in a negative way.

Be as ready as you are right this moment.

 

I'm trying my hardest not to continue this, but I can't help the need to reply.

 

It already has my friend and this is only the beginning: Senators Strike At Surveillance Laws Authorizing NSA's Warrantless Data Collection

And Snowden is on the run because he will be thrown in prison for the rest of his life. He lost any possibility of a fair trial the moment they labelled him a traitor. That's not cowardly, it's smart. It's no different than what the government does except instead of running they simply use misdirection. This wasn't a rash decision like the media would have you believe...Edward reviewed the documents and thought about it for a long time before exposing what was going on. To me he is the epitome of what America stands for but has long since forgotten. Every single choice that is made or not made, no matter how small, creates a new reality. This reality can create the opportunity for change, what we do with that opportunity is another story. I can only speak for myself when I say that I do all that I can. And however we are affected I'd choose the miserable existence of the real world in the Matrix movie than a simulation any day because at least in the real world you have real influence and a chance for real change.

Here's a really interesting article: Greenwald: Snowden’s Files Are Out There if ‘Anything Happens’ to Him

 

LiveLogicloopsTools, what you are describing is the definition of "apathy"

you acknowledge there is a problem, but you dont care or try to find a solution


btw eddie knew what he did was right, he just knew the "shadow govt" thought it would be wrong

 

You say hero, I say traitor. I hope he has a solid plan. He should have doing something like this. I give him no more than a year.