Here's the Sylenth1 v3 bank again.

https://anonfiles.com/x8l50bA1u2/EDM_MIDI_Melodics_2_fxb

 

Lead 1


Lead 2

 

I'm not trying to get signed for making 80s synthpop. If I was to do music professionally it would definitely not be that. And I will never make synthwave AKA modernized imitation 80s music. I was just inspired by what I was listening to, Kraftwerk, Bowie, Blur (not 80s but who cares) etc. I was not born in that era so yeah. I tried to make something respective of that era, instead of trying to make it contemporary. I just made that for fun. I just make what my muses bring me. Even Kraftwerk's melodies are crazy simple. But their arrangement is excellent and makes up for it.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2021

Yp, got it. Anyway IMO it's not so important if we're talking arrangement. I have to use your building blocks and "arrange" them. I was just thinking of maybe changing/adding some passing notes of/on the lead melody.. really don't know yet. As said I'll see if I can come up with something.. ;)

 

Just listen to the full track (.wav and .mp3 I provided) to figure out how the MIDI fits together and look at the image of my partial arrangement in my DAW:

 

I was thinking it needs to be better myself (the lead melody) but I had no good ideas at the time of composition.

 

Just want to Drop in and say Thank You to user1293435134 for having the courage to step up and start a thread like this. I have the same problem and am getting a lot of benefit out of these guys contributions.

It takes a lot of BALLS to admit your shortcomings

 

WAV (I listened to your WAV - oh, it's a mess, some parts are quite good and some parts don't fit! But that's why we're talking about it here.
Take more time ... a band makes an LP in 1 or 2 years.


00:00 - 00:04 Weird FX (Annoying noise, please mute the track) that would delete or replace.
00:04 - 00:10 Bass - It's OK
00:42 - This Uh oh is very appropriate.
Chaos - Mute a few tracks
It's best to start with the foundation of drums and bass,
when the two tracks are there, you add a track - labeled the Track
and then the next track, get to the bottom of the matter!
Mute every now and then - listen to the solo ... You have to feel the song.

If the timing doesn't work out, delete a few steps with the eraser or start over.
Perhaps you should reload the tracks that don't work (timing!) With the VSTi and manually reload them.
Less is often more ...

Spoiler: Example Track 1-7

Perhaps you should work from top track 1 to bottom track 7. Above the kick on 1 then the snare on 2 and so on. Please move that in the order! Above those who are done and then mute everything and move from track to track.

 

Last edited: Aug 5, 2021

When I look at your arrangement, the first thing I would suggest would be to begin using Join function on your looped materials.
it's non-destructive anyway, but it will get you moving stuff around in larger sections with more regularity.
you will delete all silence when you are mixing anyway

 

Thanks friend, I should have honestly made this thread a long time ago as I have been doing the same thing (stuck in the "4/ 8 bar loop trap") for about 2 years now, as a complete beginner producer with no music background and no one I can ask in real life to show me. I just thought I'd grow out of this with more practice but based on everything everyone here has contributed and what I've read, that's not the way. The only way to get better is to complete our tracks, even if they sound bad, not completing them is stopping us from learning so much from mistakes we would've made. Just finish every track you make from now, don't save any "ideas", unfinished beats/ instrumentals or 4/8 bar loops in your DAW. Keep doing that and eventually you'll get the hang of it from what I have gathered. This problem can be really a big demotivator from making music for beginners. I know this thread will help many beginners.

My regards to all contributors: @RobertoCavally @Plainview @BEAT16 @Donut Nyamer @Ŧยχøя @timer @kooper @clone

 

I've been making this same mistake for about 2 years (not finishing songs since I don't know how to arrange)

The reason I didn't start with bass is because I was thinking of small speakers, I think most producers don't typically start with bass in their songs because some listeners will listen from their phone speakers which are not good for low end/ bass frequencies. But I will see if starting with drums will be better. Thanks!

Sorry I have no idea what this is, please explain

 

Some things are easy for one person and difficult for another!
Sometimes you give up and sometimes you keep trying. You have come a long way.

You should rather leave the VSTi instruments on track, then you can always write in with the pen or erase something.
" Or you make small Snippets (small Samples) 3-4 Sek " !

Finished WAV's and loops are more difficult to fit.

You switch one track sharply, let the others run and play a few notes with your midikeyboard, if it doesn't fit you can edit the notes with the tools in the piano roll. Shorter longer and you simply draw it with the pen.

..........................................................................................................................
Using the piano roll for instruments

Like I said, most of your work within the piano roll will be editing melodies and chord progressions. To see how this is done, add a VST Instrument to the channel rack, right click on the name, and select piano roll.

Pencil tool: This let’s you individually draw notes in the piano roll.

Delete tool: Using this tool, you can left click and drag to delete notes, although honestly it’s way easier to just right click and drag within the pencil or paintbrush function to delete notes.

Mute tool: Using this tool allows you to mute selected notes.

Select tool: Using this tool, you can left click and drag to select multiple notes.

 

Last edited: Aug 5, 2021

Thanks a lot, I will start using all of your advice in my work.

 

good god this thread is a trip.

now i am here i might as well add my 2cents.

why not try an adaption of a sonata form. it is very satisfying, adaptive and simple.

three basic sections:

|-----1---------|----2---------|-----3---------|
|=========|=========|==========|
| exposition | development | recapitulation |
|--------------|-----------------|------------------|
| something | something----| original ---------|
|--------------| different------| something again |

this could be reduced to:

A A' A

or

A B A

further developments within the three basic sections:

|___S.1______|___S.2______|___S.3______|
|----------------|---------------|----------------|
|--- A ----------|----A'---------|----A----------|
|----------------|---------------|----------------|
| A ---> A' -----| A''--> A''' -----| A' ---> A------|
|____________|____________|____________|

or

|___S.1______|___S.2______|___S.3______|
|---------------|----------------|----------------|
|----A----------|----B----------|----A-----------|
|----------------|---------------|-----------------|
| A ---> B-------| C ---> D-----| B ---> A-------|
|____________|____________|____________|

or something like that.

you can get fancy and add codas, intro, ending or anything you want.

the developments can be chordal, melodic, dynamic, rhythmic, open/closed forms, etc. or combinations of these.

make it as complex or as simple as you want. the basic form will handle the structure and flow -- a sense of establishing a home, increasing tension by going on a journey, releasing tension by returning to a familiar home.

the success will hinge on your ability to establish a satisfying home base that the listener wants to return to.


edit: damn, it is hard to get those little lines straight.

 

Last edited: Aug 5, 2021

You've lost me straight away, sounds like some sort of classical arrangement. This thread is more about popular contemporary arrangement styles. The people who suffer from the 4/8 bar loop trap syndrome are mostly beginner producers/ beatmakers like myself, so I doubt others who face the same problem as me would understand what you suggested. Maybe you can simplify it? Or relate it to a contemporary genre?

But thanks for contributing, maybe it'll help a more advanced reader.

 

Is this what you meant?

""
|-------1-------|------2-------|------3--------|
|===============|==============|===============|
|--exposition --|-development--|-recapitulation|
|---------------|--------------|---------------|
|---something---|---something--|---original----|
|---------------|---different--|something again|

this could be reduced to:
A A' A
or
A B A

further developments within the three basic sections:

|______S.1_______|______S.2______|_______S.3______|
|----------------|---------------|----------------|
|-------A--------|-------A'------|--------A-------|
|----------------|---------------|----------------|
|----A---->A'----|---A''-->A'''--|-----A'--->A----|
|________________|_______________|________________|

or

|______S.1______|______S.2_______|______S.3_______|
|---------------|----------------|----------------|
|-------A-------|-------B--------|-------A--------|
|---------------|----------------|----------------|
|----A---->B----|----C----->D----|----B---->A-----|
|_______________|________________|________________|
""

Also I couldn't help it, but googleing showed some nice images/article..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonata_form

https://listenplaycreate.wordpress.com/2020/04/28/la-forma-sonata-the-sonata-form/

 

Last edited: Aug 5, 2021

I still don't get it as a beginner producer.

 

it is a foundational form in music that has survived hundreds of years in all types of music, up to and including eletronica, to this day. it has survived the test of time for a reason. if you want to learn a basic musical structure, it is a good place to start.

music is music, especially if looked at structurally. it is just an organization of sound over a given period of time. the change in the method of generation of the sound, i.e resonant cavities to electronic oscillators, is irrelevant in terms of organizational structure.

what you are calling contemporary genres are usually, structurally speaking, semi-rondo type forms of binary or ternary structures.

binary: 2: A B : call and response or verse chorus
ternary: 3: A B A : same --> different --> same

rondo means round or cycling through these basic structures. it can be recognized as a | verse chorus verse chorus etc. | or | verse chorus middle8 verse chorus | that type of thing. they are usually more complex than that, but that is a reduced synopsis.

the same structures apply when developing phrases from motifs within these basic musical components. motifs and phrases can be broken into groupings of 2 and 3 or compounded groupings, and then developed and differentiated through: repetition, transposed sequences, modulation, mutation, augmentation, diminution etc. not everyone likes to work like, that but it is an option.

it is just to get a basic shape to work with. you can then start filling in detail where ever you want. you can start at the end and work backwards or you may of already written a good middle contrasting segment and fill in supporting structures either side. whatever suits you.

it can all change at any time. it is just a way to get moving.

 

Not to discourage you,
but to call yourself a Music Producer..

First you'll need to be able to call yourself a Musician, and that takes considerable Time/Study/Practice..
this will take you at least 5 to 10 years, to a complete life-time of Intense/focused Study and Dedication..

(and that means understanding/knowing by heart a big/major part of Theory/Harmony,
and getting yourself a proper musical Culture..)

Then to call yourself a Composer or Producer, it will take you at least another 5-10 years more,
first effectively Composing and Producing your own stuff..

And then getting to the point you become a Professional that Composes/Produces stuff for other ppl/clients or whatever Media..


I wouldn't call myself a Professional until making money/living out of it,
and not once but in a steady/regular form..

And I'm telling you, after +20 years as a dedicated musician/guitarist,
15 of them professionally involved in one way/another..

And 12 years Composing/Producing stuff for Audiovisual Media, and Videogames..
Now I can call myself a Beginner to Medium experienced Music Producer, in the specific field/styles I work in..

That's how difficult it is


But yeah in essence, I'd say is better to restrain from putting Labels to oneself so easily/happily..

We all want to Be something,
but I think you need to be doing it first to a certain and demonstrable degree.

For instance I wouldn't call myself a "Beginner Programmer",
just because I can put a basic/crappy html page together with Frontpage,
or know a few Super-Basic things about programming in C/Python or whatever..
(or simply because I've got the interest)


But by all means, this is Not to discourage you,
keep Learning, and keep Practicing!

 

Last edited: Aug 5, 2021

Your speaking another language there man. Can you refer me to any good resources (videos preferably or sites) where I can learn more?