Tonal balance Control dead

Discussion in 'Mac / Hackintosh' started by vayabahia, Feb 2, 2021.

  1. 5teezo

    5teezo Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,063
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    Did you try to create Target profiles of your favorite albums in TBC and then use them as a guideline?
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  2. Wicked77

    Wicked77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    Man, just get new ears. I specifically checked the video after your comment and the voice is deessed. Not too much but it's equal in volume. So it's deessed. So I'd rather not trust you. Also, TBC sucks so much for so many people that even Izotope guys consider to change it. I even heard they want to stop selling it.
     
  3. Wicked77

    Wicked77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    "millions" is a word. I mean many people say it sucks.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  4. Wicked77

    Wicked77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    In this way you can use any frequency analyzer or Ozone Match function.
     
  5. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,178
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    Of course I did, it's just something weird around the high mid areas, TBC kept saying it is not enough. I boosted a bit, after exporting then I play the track at my Hi-Fi system all the harshness popped out and the mix isn't balance at all, not even close to the reference track.

    Are you saying they have better algo now ? updates and stuff ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  6. Wicked77

    Wicked77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    No. it has totally the same algo. And you are totally right. The plugin makes you boost mids and it sounds harsh. All pro reference tracks don't sound like that.
     
  7. 5teezo

    5teezo Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,063
    Likes Received:
    1,172
    So you turn the 3 people you read about, who said it sucked into a million just to make your opinion about it appear more valid. Great example of post-factual argumentation. :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  8. vayabahia

    vayabahia Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2013
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    83
    Wow, I didn't know there would be so much controversy and so much knowledge on the subject.... but by the way I insist on asking if anyone would know how to use Voxengo SPAN to give it a similar use. I think the important thing would be to know how to configure the graphical response of the curve in SPAN. But I don't have the slightest idea of those concepts, any help?
    Thx in advance.
     
  9. Valnar

    Valnar Rock Star

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    348
    try to memorize how the fletcher munson curve is supposed to look like on your SPAN and it will sound balanced
     
  10. Wicked77

    Wicked77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    it's funny how you try. Other than 4 opinions against TBC which is like 50% of this thread already, I said many people said that to me (you wouldn't believe and that's ok). If you can't see how it never match any pro mix it's sad man. If you don't understand that every pro mix always have its unique curve due to the number of instruments, and they are all have different frequency content, it's sad.
    Here's some comments I found under that video (there are like 100 quotes of this kind):

    The Bunker Studios
    Finally someone said what I was thinking... Ive experimented with this plug in and it gives false information...I wish there were more like you... I just subscribed! South Bend, Indiana 46615

    mixalis papathanasiou
    Whoever is a believer of mixing with his eyes will face the results in his "career" at some point . For sure ...

    David DiMuzio
    I agree. I've tried using TBC many times and I thought it was helping, but it always just confused me and encouraged me to make worse mixing decisions.


    Victosity Raw
    I got really hooked on this stupid plug-in and drove me crazy to hit the target. It made my mixes sound 'bad' and weird compared to never using it.

    Bran
    i dont see any reason for that kind of plugin at all.

    Jeremy Paul Waller
    wow I have been using it for months and my mixes sound like trash trying to match the suggested EQ curves. Wish I would have seen this 3 months ago as I am a beginner. I just liked and subscribed to your page. Thanks for the share and the knowledge.


    callmedezz
    So glad someone has said this. Some of my really good sounding tracks have been spoilt by TBC. It expected me to turn my mids literally ALL THE WAY DOWN, making it sound so soggy & lifeless. Not good at all.

    slowhaunt
    I have this plugin and honestly I went down a bad rabbit hole with it for quite a while. You’re exactly right. Just make it how YOU WANT IT TO SOUND. I feel like this plugin ONLY comes in handy if you load in a reference track that is VERY similar to yours. For example, if you’r track is basically going to sound like the Dua Lipa track, then load the Dua Lipa track into it and compare. Just for a base reference.


    Seema Subarna
    Very true . I had the same problem

    Angur bansuri
    exactly my point.. i was lucky, i did the trail period of the software and i was disappointed. i rather use my ears than let a plugin tell me how it meant to sound.. it sounds rubbish thank you

    Joe
    I used TBC a couple for a couple masters and then realized how awful the suggestions were. I was skeptical of the accuracy so I loaded up a track and used the same track as its own target curve for TBC, theoretically it should match perfectly but apparently the plugin says its way off lmao

    Tazmanian Ninja
    I own Ozone 9 Advanced and Tonal Balance Control 2 – and I agree: TBC does not work.

    A brother in Christ
    Yeah, I never use TBC. I've found it's useless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  11. Wicked77

    Wicked77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    Fendrix 69
    It’s weird because, at least IMO, Izotope makes killer plugins and very smart tools, but this one is absolute garbage to a point where I think we should ask for a refund en masse. TBC is a gimmick not a tool, it could be good and it should not be that hard to make something usable out of it, sadly it is not and it made me waste many days of mixing and mastering with consistently terrible results. It’s good to see that I’m neither crazy nor alone.

    DJ TUFF 514
    I totally agree with you, its a nice tool, but has lead me wrong on so many occasions, even with my own targets, I thought I was going crazy, keep up the amazing work and honesty

    Philfy Phil
    Yes, I think iZotope have tried to throw in some cheap candy on top of a well baked wedding cake with this one. I never use TBC, but I do like most of Ozone. TBC goes against all professional mastering engineers’ advice

    Jeremy Sikkema
    Thanks Andrew! Great points...i struggled using this specific plugin and others like bassroom. Makes a lot more sense now ;)

    NEW NEWYORKCITY
    Tonal balance ruined like 17 tracks of mine now I must go back.I tested my masters on small speakers and my high mids were so extreme it hurt my ears.Also my was to much and it forced me to cut so much hugs out my tracks there were no life in them only nasal frequencies.This plugin seems to be addicted to forcing you to boost 1kor 2k area.Ozone is really fake for this plugin.

    Zeke Lopez
    Yea, I tried this plugin a few times and I just couldn't get into it. I don't mind the match eq, but this one just doesn't work.

    Bright Glitch Latinoamerica
    I felt that there was something bothering me about this plugin, thanks for sharing!



    knivesout33
    Thanks for that! I was led to believe that this plugin was actually a guide but somehow the results were always worse than before. Now I know why. ;)

    Showers Podcasts & Music
    NO BS!!!! Always great content man! Thank you and thank you for helping those animals. I totally agree about tonal balance control. It is such a bad way to navigate through the mix. I have NEVER once had good results from using it. I would love it to work accurately, and I am not just trying to hate on it. It would be amazing if it delivered, but the fact is that it doesn't. Stay away from it. It may be helpful to help amateurs, but it always creates such lifeless, flat mixes that usually lack low and high end. Thank you for speaking the truth about it.

    Jonas Sagun
    i noticed that too, so thank's for posting this


    A Maeland
    My experience is the same, but you made it more clear to me why it doesn't work. Great video

    Paul Hinton
    Thank you for this! I have been struggling with the nasal sound I get from Tonal Balance.
     
  12. Wicked77

    Wicked77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    RS PATEL
    Heartly Thankyou. I've ruined a lot of my mixex with This Plugin, TankYou for the video. God Bless You Man,

    Xavier Duch Music / Mixing for Media
    Thank you Andrew...at least, I can understand I was not me, is TBC!! I agree totally!! I am fighting for 2 days for mixing an orchestral track with Taikos and no matter what I do, it always says I have too much low end when....this is a Taikos!! I can't make this sounds like an Irish Bodhran!! if I do what it requires to be "ok", it sounds like a crap...the cellos doing stacattos it needs some punch in low/mid frequencies and with its suggestions, almost sounded like low range violas...Ozone its good! but...TBC is driving me crazy.

    Jonas Sagun
    i noticed that too, so thank's for posting this

    aziouz figuir
    I bought it few days ago before I see this video ☹, before use it too but I agree 100 % with you

    jay blakk
    Wow this is such an important knowledge. Thank you for sharing this.

    mainetsmurf
    Thanks, dude. I've lost the last 2 weeks f-king around with this plugin making shitty mixes because I'm trying to get my frequencies to fit in their ranges.

    Roebuck Rowhammer
    Thank you for doing this video. I was noticing the issues you pointed out with this plugin when I used it. I understand now. Thanks!

    Eric Gudmunsen
    I watched a ton of Tonal Balance Control videos before this one. I should have watched this one first! Lots of my questions answered. Many thanks.

    Weird Oscillator
    1000% agree. This plugin is terrible, and nearly always showing incorrect frequency information. I've been trying to use this plugin for a year and if you follow it's advice, it almost always makes tracks sound worse. It's disappointing because Izotope has some pretty good plugins, but this isn't one of them.
     
  13. Wicked77

    Wicked77 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    13
    Just 34 opinions under Andrew's video on Youtube on TBC plugin which I copied and pasted here lol
    So don't tell me only 3 people don't like TBC
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  14. Rere

    Rere Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    9
    Well... I use TBC as a "in the ballpark" guide from a long time ago and I've never had any gross inaccuracies. My mixes are very balanced and although I look at TBC as a very generic guide, I obviously use my ears to make final judgments.
    It goes without saying that you should not trust it as an ultimate reference... but if you're knowledgeable and careful, have experience in sound engineering and good ears, it can be useful.
    Way more useful if you don't have a state-of-the-art monitoring system or a bad sounding/untreated room for ex. to check for deep bass extension in reference to certain genres, among a more general view of your freq average.
    Works for me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • List
  15. Stevie Dude

    Stevie Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2020
    Messages:
    2,178
    Likes Received:
    1,906
    Location:
    Near Nyquist
    That is the thing that scares me the most, it feels okay when mixing/mastering or while you are processing the audio. The problem only appear when you play the mix at a different system. A consumer grade for instance that is known to not have a flat frequency response plus the variety of room, listening environment it is played at. In the end, that is what matter IMO.

    My conclusion is it is unreliable for my usage, what's the point of using the reference system if you are going to go against it at like 4db of gain anyway just because it doesn't sound right to you ? also I've been thinking it was just me until someone brought it up here. If it works for you then okay.
     
  16. Andy1

    Andy1 Newbie

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2021
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    don't mix! Don't listen! Don't think! Just go with TBC!
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  17. rikyjacho

    rikyjacho Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    18
    unfortunately, andrew took down his video about tonal balance control due to conflicts of interests. in his own words:

    "I didn't change my opinion. I just decided not to make any harm to the great company Izotope. And I'm chatting with their big guy David from time to time. So I feel I don't want to cause any inconvenience for them"

    such a pitty, bc it was a good criticism against tbc and still holds water at present. the idea behind tbc is interesting but the plugin doesn't do what it's supposed to do, therefore using it in a mixing and mastering context will negatively affect the impact of the music.

    hopefully the guys at izotope will do further revisions and improve the plugin in the future.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 2
    • List
  18. Kwissbeats

    Kwissbeats Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,559
    Likes Received:
    652
    Guys, can we please discuss what is going wrong within the plugin, instead of ruminating other people's opinions?

    is there any plugin that does a better job?

    would tempo matched tracks work?

    I would like to argue that that problem lies in the Time domain, how does it account for intro's and breaks in a reference track?

    did anyone read the manual?

    is it for a specific part of the track? (for instance the refrain/loudest parts?)
     
  19. Smoove Grooves

    Smoove Grooves Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    @Kwissbeats
    How is that relevant in regards "tonal balance"? :no:
    I think perhaps you are over thinking things in the wrong direction.
     
  20. lxfsn

    lxfsn Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2021
    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    246
    TBC is a very capable plugin. The thing is, it takes into consideration the simultaneous interaction of at least 3 aspects, while displaying just a single line: the rapport between the 4 bands (in terms of loudness, dynamics and dynamic range), the dynamic range per band (how much compression there is) and then the average loudness of the sound per band.

    So yes, it may show like there is not enough high end, but many times there is too much low end, or the dynamic range in the high end is too small (overcompression). Or it may show like there is not enough midrange, but the problem can be too much dynamics in the midrange, not the rms/loudness. TBC is never just about the level of the band

    Also, the point where it works best is on the loudest part of the song, where all the elements are present. Alot of music nowdays is just "boom-tsss", without any constant midrange. Just add a pad to your mix (remove it later) to see how TBC reacts and shows everythign in place if the mix is perfect. Take any Serban Ghenea, make custom curves from a bunch of his chorusses and see how the last 20 years of pop fit perfectly into that curve. Same for electronic music actually.

    I think TBC is the most sophisticated and also the most misunderstood tool out there. There isnt anything quite like it and I hope iZotope will not kill it (although, they are capable to do it, just to stop confusing the thousands of retards Twitter artists with big following from sh!tting on this product, sadly)

    As for Andrew Zeleno, very, very overrated tutorial maker guy. Talks and draws alot and gives the impression he knows all the things. He know some, but in the end is just another tutorials guy. If you want to see what a real pro mix engineer talks, tools, mixing philosophy, head over to the gearspace and search for "serban ghenea mixes - all itb?" thread. John Hanes (Serban's partner) gives absolute golden nuggets of knowledge. If you don't know these names, they won 18 Grammy and have 27 nominations. It's a long read (there is also an additional q&a but very well worth it).
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Tonal balance Control Forum Date
Mixing lost projects, tonal balance control help. Mixing and Mastering Oct 26, 2022
Tonal balance control says your bass is compressed! Mixing and Mastering Jan 1, 2019
does anyone use Izotope Tonal balance? Working with Sound Aug 2, 2022
Would you check this, for the love of tonal balance! Mixing and Mastering Jul 8, 2022
izotope Tonal balance and winehq Software May 25, 2018
Loading...