@G String
"Yugoslavia was never socialist. Stalinist, yes, socialist, no."

Yugoslavia had a very different system than the Stalinist Soviet Russia.Standard of living was better than in all other eastern European countries.
Yet it was a forced brotherhood that wasnt meant to last.Tensions in this region especially between Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia/Kosovo have always been high.

 

For sure. So, no conspiracy is necessary, right? Basic self-interest doesn't need explication by way of 911 Inside Job etc. Capital has its own interests, no need of conspiracy to explain it.

Socialism would make the world as seen by conspiracists impossible. How can there be elites with huge power when everyone is equal? So, even if conspiracy theories were true, one still needs something with which to replace them - and as socialism is the abolition of class, it would destroy all conspiracies by destroying their entire foundation and purpose (inequality).

And yet Conspiracism invariably denies this by including "socialism" within "the NWO" - as it were the problem, not the solution. That's obviously very useful for TPTB - and disastrous for the rest of us *if* socialism is the answer, not part of the problem.

Socialism already has a full repertoire of criticism and a manifesto for change - all of which are discarded by Conspiracists. It doesn't need to be worked out anew - it's the same old. But throwing out socialism *is* problematic - because it discards all the criticism and the manifesto for change it represents.

I've no argument with that. ;) [Though I would leave out the word "very".]

 

regarding Yugoslavia, all of the old generation loved it

it was forced brotherhood, you could do anything there unlike in soviet countries and you got a lot of help from the state, unlike in pure capitalist countries

all was good for everyone except the ones that wanted a change in power, those people simply dissapeared


with Tito gone, politicians at high levels had no one watching over them, it was a feast for pigs, they filled their pockets, abused their power to propagate their own primitive opinions about how everything should be run. But noone had the authority like Tito earned himself. From ww2 onwards he maintained independence for Yugoslavia while getting the best from west and east.

Now those idiots, powerful moron politicians, were on their own and being the idiots they were/are they liked to be especially proud on their cultural differences, which are really few...

Propagating an environment of competition instead of collaboration.

Its the same food, drink and language throughout most of old Yugoslavia. Differences mostly lie in generation old unresolved conflicts due to ottoman rule, forced religion for benefits etc. Basically primitive shit.


Destructive parts of western civilization saw an opportunity in this tension and used their influence to further their own interests and fuel the conflict, support their favored side with money, tactics and even ground troops (although never mentioned in the media).
They did however not need to start the fire, simply put a few logs on the hot ash and the country caught fire to the point where neighbors killed neighbors.

Cutting Yugoslavia in nice little compartmentalized republics which are now all indented to western interests.
Symbolically the American embassy is on the top of a hill in Belgrade, next to it, and further down the hill is a main Serbian military base and on the other side the old kings palace.


This did not sit well with many of the population which blamed the west for what happened there.
Holding on to their superficial understanding proudly without taking into account their own responsibility in the conflict.
Civilized peaceful protest would have likely prevented most bloodshed but it never crossed most peoples minds as for hundreds of years, protesting got you in jail or killed.

But the young generation would rather be exploited by the west then their own primitive rulers as there is a large intellectual population which has great difficulties due to an environment ruled by ex communist morons with a skewed but proud world view of how things should be. Sacrificing economical and other development in exchange for holding on to their failed believes.

You will earn more painting walls in many parts of ex Yugo then being a doctor...


This idiocy is not without deeper historical reason, eastern Yugoslavia resisted the Ottoman empire for a very very long time, lived under Ottoman rule for over 500 years. Never submitting to the Turkish rule fully. Hence all the tension, conflict and rigidity in those people. Its became genetic to be opposed to authority.

I lived there, its like a pigfarm nowadays. With people trying to survive in it when most opportunities are either being a slave, a collaborator with corruption or a slaver/other type of criminal.
Whatever you want to improve in the country, you have to pay people off to allow it.


And this, my friends, is why we dont talk politics on Audiosex...

 

Isn't it more that people struggle to get along when talking about "serious" stuff? Much better to learn to get along than bury our differences, imo.

That's why I made the point about attacking ideas being fine and good, whereas attacking people for believing ideas is not.

I don't mean to annoy anyone, though no doubt one always does, somehow. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, in fact I positively embrace it because life is very dull without argument (in the best sense - an exchange of ideas, not a nasty quarrel).

People argue over everything, not just politics. Some folks are intemperate, and things are easily misunderstood on the internet. If I even knew why I had annoyed our Yugoslavian friend I could apologise, but I don't even know what I did wrong......so I can't. And I *am* opinionated - I know it annoys folks, but in a discussion why can't one say what one believes, if it is said politely and is not offensive etc?

All we need do is disagree politely and there's no issue. Personally I don't get too offended at "the internet" - I get upset at kids starving and shit like that.

 

Why do you dislike it, ddoctor? What are you annoyed about anyway? I honestly cannot tell.

 

Von_Steyr don't be mad on me but man that profile pic is pulling words out of my mouth line from movie : come here pig!
someone mention yugoslavia i was born there in 85 man yugoslavia was european america it was comunist but man best comunism in the world nothing close to russia and others! cuba kept that model to this day as yugoslavia pretty much america has the same system as ygoslavia keep the money flowing in cicrcle!

 

Thanks for the effort but to no avail it is, as you can see from g-spot's response; you are however as knowledgeable compared to him as I am compared to you, but I have to live here - it is not a diploma but reality (ne isključujem mogućnost da si još uvijek 'naš' i da je samo pristojnost u pitanju - u tom se slučaju ispričavam) - but our american friend sees and hears no one but himself (what is the last thing he wrote 'kids who starve' - I just ate some bread and semi-butter for lunch - and that is good compared to some days - but I am not a kid though). I come here only to become disappointed and I keep coming back - because of the feed on the audioz!

 

Juga nikad nije i nikad neće bit posrana amerika, raspala se ili ne - ne seri!

 

I'm not American. I already told you. You should be able to tell from my spelling. So who isn't seeing or hearing properly?

I haven't had any lunch, or breakfast for that matter. I live in one of the absolute poorest regions of Northern Europe. I don't need lessons on poverty or inequality, thanks. Oh, the weather has been -5C and I live in a caravan. I think I have quite an appreciation that despite being amongst the absolute poorest 20% of the world's population I am in ways very fortunate to be where I am and to have what little I do. Britain is a very unequal place, with a lot of wealth and a lot of poverty. Marx wrote about it, in London. His grave is there. Why shouldn't I respect that? Anyway - I do. That's *my* view. You don't have to share it.

I'm sorry to so upset you, but I have no idea how I did. You're being rude. What can *I* do about that? Nothing. Ah well.

 

if you live there, then tell us what us not true about what we are saying about ex Yugo.

The culture is nostalgic and backwards for most people, the old live in Titos past and blame external forces for the dissolution of yugoslavia.

Man its shit there, nowadays i only steal torrents, but while living there i had to either suck it up or steal food to survive.

What is so wrong about saying that the culture is underdeveloped compared to other countries? It is simple fact, as is the fact that most places on the planet are way worse.
If national pride is part of your identity then keep it. I dont care to convince anyone but am simply giving an objective assessment of a topic which i gave years of thoughts to. Id get beaten up there if id say that Yugo people are partially responsible for the shit that happened.
Congrats if you are brave enough to live life with rigid believes about black and white.
Matter of fact is, no matter how smart and educated you are, in life there are forces at play that we cannot comprehend.
We can be honest with ourselves or not, it is a choice.

And yes, they are western Republics already, no matter how much wishful thinking you put into holding up your believes. My advise is to face the facts and get some better nutrition to improve your own life.
And if you cant handle being upset by your believe systems being threatened by statement of simple facts then move on and dont waste your time on this forum of ignorants. Perhaps you truly have something better to do?

Arguing is of course what most people chose over facing their own infallacies...

Since that form of weakness does not have any repercussions on the internet, pretty much all political discussions end in some kind of shitstorm eventually.


If your heart is full of pain, make music

No way anyone will understand what you are talking about by simply opposing everything with a few snug sentences.

Id be really surprised if this does not end in a shitstorm but some kind of mutual agreement, but politics are simply not that kind of topic..

 

You are just a pathetic liar and this whole time you were just having nothing else to do but fuck around. But the real question is how come no one sees that you are plainly lying - btw I did not say you were an american but merely american, to distinct those who don't have american nationality but do have american heart and desires.

 

I don't know where this world is headed, but it seems not to be forward at this time. Hopefully it's a two steps forward one step back sort of thing.
If you look at the total timeline of human history, we have made many sociological improvements, and as a general whole, life is better for many. But there is still much division in the world.
The world as a whole can't decide which sociological system is the best. Many are too tied in the past in order to see what the future can be. And look how long it has taken us just to get where we are.
In my opinion, we are still primitive. I believe we will be primitive until we can accept as a whole society that violence is never the answer, war is never the answer, there are enough natural resources on this world for everyone (what are we really running short on where one group of people have an excess, and another group lives in squalor?), and an intangible concept such as money cannot be the basis of personal wealth.
As long as our society is being driven by an intangible concept, how can reality be fully realized?
Why do we continually accept and support leaders who are clearly driven by money, power, greed, etc.? Because we are continually lied to.
In a market based economy, it's all supposed to be based on money which is supposed to be based on a tangible article like gold. But it's not. The numbers have been manipulated and massaged to a point where if is difficult to tell what is true and what is not. The US has it's trillions and trillions of dollars worth of deficit, but still it is a leading economic power? How can that be a truth?
I see commercials where they want you to send money because a dog or a cat or a horse is outside in the cold or being starved while at the same time there are homeless people EVERYWHERE who are outside in the cold, starving. Which is the most important of the two?
So why the rant?
Because I felt like it! So back to topic, and so I can sum this up by arriving there, music has become what it has become because the ones with the power to make it different, and they are also a minority in terms of numbers, are too busy chasing after an intangible thing that they overlook many, many beautiful things that were there waiting to be discovered.

And lets stop the name calling. It's childish.

 

Whoooaaa I'm late! So this is the bad losers topic? So who is the hidden jimi hendrix here?

 

Nepotism in music...

As in all forms of life, nepotism seems to be a given. Can someone name a walk of life without Nepotism ?

I particularly despise the Rich and Powerful, dare I say, "established elite" who enable their offspring a way into the Arts. Without getting overly political these individuals, as of late are framing themselves as anti-establishment.

I think people in this thread are seeing a symptom (Nepotism) to a worse problem that is Monopoly/Cartel/Conspiracy.

Whilst it's easy to trash talk those artists who've found success (?? Fame and Money ??) the real problems are buried much deeper than a handful of artists. Lets face it these artists make more $$$ from their Clothing or Perfume lines than they make from record sales.

Before I start my diagnosis, I would suggest reading over this article. It predates the internet and to a certain extent digital music technology. Yet add in the effect of internet and digital technology and it's problems are more acute are more widely felt than the music industry alone (IE Film). Maybe even challenging the idea of individual ownership. (Assuming 3D printing takes off like they say)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise:_The_Political_Economy_of_Music

So if you can be bothered... Read that first.

The real problem is that it is NOT as profitable to market to different audiences. Particularly when it comes to age or perceived artistic value.

Tony Bennett on it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26662899

Basically 'the powers that be' have completely shit themselves since the age of the internet and consolidated all their energy into pushing fewer things. Essentially narrowing the market and gaining greater market share. Brainwashing another generation into being more closed minded to alternatives. (Although this sentiment has probably existed since the dawn of art.)

The hardest thing to accept (Being a relatively open minded individual) is that this kind of consolidation, (Cowardice if you will.) is happening across Film/TV/media at a similar time.

In a nut shell, nearly everything that is involved in the murky entertainment world is a Subsidiary of one of very few massive global entertainment corporations.

These huge multinational corps are able to coincide the marketing of their material through all of their different mediums at once. They make a movie, put their artists as the sound track (Sometimes even actors), then they make a video game. Using each medium to prop up the other.

This has gone on for a while. Inspiring the classic Tom Lehrer song, Oedipus Rex.

What's made this problem even worse is that these corporations also own a large amount of cable TV. Meaning they charge consumers and pay themselves for the rights to show their own movie (or series) on TV. Compounded further by the bozos over in advertising who think,

"We need a song for our Ad that appeals to X. Oh yeah that movie had this singer or that song was in that movie...".

At this point you've gone full circle. The advertisers are paying to advertise with the same people that they are paying to use their music. And these same people are paying themselves to show their own entertainment shows...

You make think I am absolutely bonkers conspiracy theorist but the evidence is there. Before the internet came of age they also had their hands in the venues and recording studios (Probably still do) and also had a lot of actual physical advertising on billboards and bus stops. Clear Channel were one of Murdochs toys but they were broken up by the UK government for being guess what ? A monopoly.

Throw in things like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_price_fixing and Payola and it's an even crazier conspiracy.

Aside: I know someone who worked at a few labels and he said they'd sign bands to silence them (Too similar to something else they were pushing) or that they could ban bands playing at venues. Which is troublesome if all the venues are owned by the same corp. Force signed acts to use their studios ect.

Trouble is the internet shook it all up and still does. I do however think they are consolidating the power that they had and they are now stronger than before and beginning to realise it. Maybe this means they can afford to be a little more risky... Don't hold your breath.

FWIW: Clean Bandits "Rockabye" is the first Christmas number One in the UK not be related to the X Factor since 2003s Gary Jules' cover of Mad World.

However I would like to end on a more upbeat and positive outlook.

It has never been easier to find your audience. It has never been easier to record. FWIW an individual can have much more control over the use of their music if they are the sole owners. You just won't get a $100,000 advance for marketing. (An advance that if you had been successful you'd have had to of paid for anyway).

Music should never have been about global domination. Music is deeply rooted in the human psyche. Whether it's something new or a song generations of people have known (E.G. Shantys, Folk, Blues, dare I say Hymns ?)

I believe in Ian Mckayes (Minor Threat/Fugazi) philosophy that he adopted with Dischord records. Labels should be local to where they are based. It may sound bananas but if people can be encouraged to engage with a local music scene then everybody can benefit.

 

Last edited: Jan 5, 2017

You don't know anything about me - and you're just talking to me, not with me.

You haven't even explained your complaint. No matter - it's fine. I disliked your joke (invented) Orwell quote and you got stroppy. Oh well. Fact is Orwell is my favourite author, the same author you (purposefully?) misquoted. Well, in fact you invented the quote, not misquoted it. In terms of Orwell, manufactured quotes are what he was against, obviously. That's a major theme of 1984 - so why not point it out in a thread about NWO pop?

I'm not American - I'm a child of the Cosmos. Always was, always will be. And it always upsets folk.......oh well.

 

Yeah, just like Chomsky's Political Economy of the Mass Media. It's the same story, over and over again.

From a Marxist POV, the positive has to be the prospect of the democratisation of production through computers - which are machines that can do anything. *This* is why I support piracy (so long as it isn't so widespread it destroys the source - not yet, at least).

For the first time ever, everyday folk (through piracy) have had access to the same tools as privileged and wealthy folk. This is hugely positive, not just for individuals but for culture generally. We all stand to gain from it. It will produce a whole new wave of aggressively independent producers in all sorts of fields. It's the most "punk" anything has ever been.

Do it yourself! And define "it" yourself. This will blow away all the commercial crap we are presently swamped by.

Computers are a means of production - and we have them in our hands. We, not "they". If we can't do better than the pap about now, we have only ourselves to blame.

Nepotism is another word for family values. Right?

I love Gary Jules' Mad World.

 

I'll just leave this nasty ass shit here. I don't buy into the NWO stuff, but I'm really surprised AB wasn't included in your list. If this video is real, this chick needs to be hospitalized.

 

Yea, that looks healthy.