Timing Oddity...

Discussion in 'DAW' started by BooBam, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    Have to qualify myself by saying I am new to home recording, DAW's etc.
    So I chose one that was easy for me and it may not be the best of the bunch.
    I am using Mixcraft 8. Today I noticed while trying to compile some VST parts I recorded earlier they seemed to be slower than they should be. They had been mixed down to wavs and brought back in as sound files.
    They sound fine when played in VLC but brought back into Mixcraft and played at the tempo they were recorded at, 80 BPM in 3/4 time, they definately sound slow...dragging actually.
    I had to speed up the playback from 80 to 120 BPM for them to sound decent. Now I'm worried about trying to lay in tracks for bass, chords etc over them.

    Am I missing something here with Maixcraft? Any ideas what might be going on?

    Thanks much for any and all help!
    Cheers!
     
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  3. mozee

    mozee Audiosexual

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    Is there some sort of time stretching algorithm at work? I am not familiar with Mixcraft, but if there is some autodetect of tempo it is often not right and can do strange things.
     
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  4. Kinghtsurfer

    Kinghtsurfer Rock Star

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    Not familiar with Mixcraft...

    But, this could also happen because of a sample rate mismatch... Check your DAW preferences for what sample rate has been selected...

    If the imported WAV files are in a different sample rate, timing/ slowing down/ pitch shift issues may occur...
     
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  5. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    Thank you both for the replies.

    I will look at prefs for sample sample rate difference.
     
  6. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    Interesting...I took the wav files intro Melodyne and saved them as midi's.
    When brought into Mixcraft and the original vst and filter applied they played fine, no problem.
    Guess I should just work with midi's and output the final as a wav?
     
  7. Kinghtsurfer

    Kinghtsurfer Rock Star

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    You could do that... But it would severely limit your creative potential...

    While MIDI is great for programming synths and such, manipulating WAV files opens up a whole new world of creative options...

    Just make sure the imported WAV file and the project preference sample rate are the same...

    All the best!
     
  8. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    Thank you!
    The sample rates are the same.
    I hear you though.
    Maybe I should look at another DAW a little higher up the use ladder.

    Thanks again!

    Ciao
     
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  9. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Producer

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    Normally if you import a wave file with a different sample rate of your DAW session,your DAW should read your wave at the good speed automatically.
    You should check your DAW settings.

    Otherwise,for me Mixcraft is not a very interesting DAW.
    Live or Studio One are far better.
     
  10. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Producer

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    When you rendered you midi part,have you been carefull to render on 1 Bar or 2 bars or 4 or 8 or 16 Bars?
    If not when you import your file in your session Mixcraft will not adjust your file at the good tempo.
     
  11. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    I am not sure what you mean by your question...?
    I selected the entire track and rendered it to a wav.
     
  12. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Producer

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    Well...Example:
    (if you make a track in 4/4)
    you have made a midi part on 2 Bars,on the 2 first bars of the track.

    Then,when you export your midi part as a wave file,select carefully the 2 bars,and not 2 bars + 1 step for example! Otherwise when you will import your wave in your other track,the DAW will timestretch the wave (2 bars+1 step) on 2 bars !!! And so your audio is not at the good tempo.

    Other example:
    If you have rendered an entire ( midi ) track,then when you import it in a project as a wave file,select in this track exactly how many bars and step it is ( it depends on the lengeth of your track! ),otherwise the DAW doesn't understand and you don't get the good tempo.Because the DAW timestretches this wave part of an unknown length.

    Other solution:
    Desactivate the timestretch function in your wave track.
    But in this case in your project you must set the same tempo of your original project ( the one you made your midi part ) .Otherwise you won't get the good tempo.
    Good luck!
    It's simple!

    Hope you understand my poor English!
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  13. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    Yes, I understand SquareCjay and will try what you recommend.
    Thank you very much!
    Your English is fine!
     
  14. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    This is crazy!
    Just rendered a wav file from a midi track in Mixcraft. Then brought the wav file back into Mixcraft below the original midi it was made from.
    They do not match, the wav file is longer than the midi and plays way slower. You can see the image below. The original midi is in blue the wav that was made from it in green.

    http://ibb.co/jNB32c
     
  15. Magic Mango

    Magic Mango Kapellmeister

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    Very strange. I thought it might be a reverb tail or something, but i guess not.
    And if it is not a timestretch/warping issue, then maybe a 44.1/48 sample conversion thing?
     
  16. Kinghtsurfer

    Kinghtsurfer Rock Star

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    Repeating myself... But that looks like a sample rate mismatch... Just to be doubly sure...

    What sample rate are you exporting the WAV file to?

    What is your project's sample rate set to?

    If there is an option in your DAW preferences to convert all imported WAVs to project sample rate make sure it is ticked...
     
  17. dbmuzik

    dbmuzik Platinum Record

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    3/4 time of 80bpm render brought "back" in translates as 60bpm? That could be the answer in itself if timestretching is on. You could also be rendering at a lower sample rate than you are tracking. The track channel options should have on/off for timestretching.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  18. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    Thank you all for your replies...much appreciated!

    The sample rates of the recording and mix down to wav are the same, 44100...and remain the same when the wav is brought back in.

    I looked at every setting in the entire program and the manual and found nothing on turning time stretching on or off when importing a sound file. Found nothing on turning time stretching on or off on a track either.
    What I did find was time stretching is done by holding down Control and pulling or pushing the end of a track.

    I can manually match the wav to the midi by time stretching as a last resort but that is hit and miss and seems an unnecessary step, they should match naturally.

    BTW the wav form itself seems really wimpy...is there way way to beef up the visual of it?

    Thanks again for all your help!
     
  19. SquareDjay

    SquareDjay Producer

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    And can't you set the tempo of the wave file? Maybe you can,like most of DAWs.Set the tempo of your original midi file.
    I don't know Mixcraft very well.
     
  20. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    Yes, the tempo of the midi and the wav files are both 80 BPM.

    I posted on Mixcraft forum and got no replies at all.
     
  21. BooBam

    BooBam Ultrasonic

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    Well, I tried the same files with Reaper and they match perfectly!
    I will just finish the project there.
    The only thing I noticed is Reaper seems a bit slow loading the Kontakt VSTI's.
    There is a trade off with everything I guess.
    However the piano roll is way better in Reaper.

    Thank you all again for your help!
     
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