indeed ASUS did release firmware downgrade few months ago, point is no mobo manufacturer is obliged to do so, and Intel doesn't care...

yes and no, it's indeed a matter of cost as well, but also potential market share target,
which is why new RME interfaces announced this month are PCIe "again", with ability to put them in Thunderbolt 3/4 chassis optionally:
https://rme-audio.de/hdspe-aox.html
https://rme-audio.de/hdspe-aox-d.html

 

cable is different, I did try some USB-C cables with Apollo X8P interface and indeed none of them works, you really need fancy overpriced Thunderbolt type-C cable for Thunderbolt devices,
latency by design is on par with PCIe, but one of reasons Intel patched out older devices is, an external device should not have a direct access to a computer in a way internal PCIe does, it's a significant security vulnerability

 

i know some people have difficulty in applying theory across differing aspects, but wave propagation in water can be applied to accoustical waves in some ways. so too, the theory of marketing being a process where the buyer is sold the same thing over and over again can apply to music reproduction devices like phonograph, tape loop (8track), tape loop (cassette) etc.
one can extrapolate this to mean, hardware for computers can be resold over and over 8086,80286,80386, 80486, Pentium (80586 was not trademarked by intel,because someone else already had it),Dual-core,core-duo,i3,i5,i9.

So too software, Windows 3.1,Windows95,windows98,windowsME,windowsNT,windowsXP,Windows Vista,Windows 8, Windows10(there was no 9), Windows11

certainly even the thinking impaired can begin to see a trend here.

Incremental improvement, AKA "polishing the turd" is a way to separate you from your money over and over and you clamor to do it for social esteem and mythic "improvement", that usually involves buying even more shit to get it to actually work.

Your money, your time, your choice, just don't be in such a hurry to put the worm in your mouth (hint there is a sharp steel hook beneath your fleshy treat waiting to drag you )

at least try skipping a few generations of whatever technology you are addicted to, even a junkie drys out once in a while.

 

Yeah, me. I still use TC Electronic StudioKonnekt 48 firewire interface for AD/DA duties. I love that interface so much. Really nice and flexible mixer, and really nice fx, especially reverb from system 6000. It is definitely worth it. I bought a Thinkpad 410 laptop especially just for controlling the mixer and fx on this interface.

 

Last edited: Jun 24, 2024

it appears apple killed firewire with dubious licensing fees..

The rise and fall of FireWire—IEEE 1394, an interface standard boasting high-speed communications and isochronous real-time data transfer—is one of the most tragic tales in the history of computer technology. The standard was forged in the fires of collaboration. A joint effort from several competitors including Apple, IBM, and Sony, FireWire was a triumph of design for the greater good. It represented a unified standard across the whole industry, one serial bus to rule them all. Realized to the fullest, FireWire could replace SCSI and the unwieldy mess of ports and cables at the back of a desktop computer.

Yet FireWire's principal creator, Apple, nearly killed it before it could appear in a single device. And eventually the Cupertino company effectively did kill FireWire, just as it seemed poised to dominate the industry.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...the-standard-everyone-couldnt-quite-agree-on/

 

Couldn't agree more. My Grandmother had a refridgerater that she NEVER had to replace. . And yeah, I still use firewire too. It isn't that I'm a complete luddite. I do ocassionally upgrade....to new-er used used machines. And I also have built several machines JUST to use spefic hardware. It's much more economical to buy a used computer than a new interface and, like that TC Konnect, there is hardware out here that simply is not available in a new "upgraded" version. Only my first computer was new. It set me back $2K and in about three years it was worth maybe $50. The bleeding edge is a sucker's game. I refuse to following the herd's path of constant upgrade.

Not for me thanks.

 

Last edited: Jun 23, 2024

I'll just say my two cents.

Technically wise, there was a point in the FW vs USB debate until USB2 (included), because FW was full duplex (bidirectional at the same time) since the beginning. USB2 was enough for most sound interfaces, but still was not bidirectional. Lame as f*ck.

After that (USB3+), there should have been an unified standard because both USB and FW started to have high speeds and complexity. But it was too late due to Apple being Apple and Intel being Intel.

From what I gather it was more Apple's fault than Intel's, but I'm no expert in this particular shit-mess.

 

Thunderbolt is great on an Apple machine. And faster. And more secure. And compatible with USB 1/2/3/4/etc etc with the port.

Hell, my laptop can drive 3 or 4 displays up to 6K at 60Hz over Thunderbolt, and another display up to 4K at 144Hz over its HDMI output.

(I'm running a 32" and 28" 4 or 5k monitors off it right now, and the fans don't even go on ever even with heavier sessions and cpu intensive plugs etc)

And supposedly, (and I'm not sure if it's bullshit as I'm not a gamer, nor tested it myself etc), runs Windows faster then any i9 laptop machine (as of least months ago according to the bs I have seen), and eats their lunches with battery life.

But at the same time, I agree completely with the problem of extant/dropped/orphaned/dismissed/arbitrarily so at that as well, protocols.

I've had nubus/pci/pcie/fw/fw800/usb interfaces etc over the years, and usb tends to stick around even if it's not the sexiest solution around, and those solutions come and go... and usb tends to be Keith Richards on this shit.

I see no reason for Apple to have allegedly deleted 4 lines of code that drop FW support from macOS core audio after a certain point, as I really loved some of my FW interfaces like the Apogee Ensemble etc... and it's damn worse when companies like NI and whatnot make shit that isn't class compliant over damn USB.

But TB is faster, and more secure, and does more with a Mac at least. But that still doesn't make me comfortable as I'm not an Apple fanboi as much as my wagon is currently attached... and as I said earlier in the thread... looking at a new travel audio interface, if it's issued in both USB c and TB, I probably should go USB... (even though the reviews and measurements show better RTL and whatnot with the TB model, as I don't want to be left holding another boat anchor in 3-4 years kinda thing...and I'm not sure why it does, as long story but)..

But hell, usb 2 has been fine... (although again, FW and TB have had a better handshaking protocol iirc, one less reliant on the cpu, and a host of other things... but how did that work out with me for FW? or FW800? ... whatever...).

For drives, TB might be better for me (but whatever, usb4 should be fast enough for external loading of Kontakt libraries right?), but for interfaces and things that work cross platform in regards to looking forward, I think picking the "chosen standard" is probably the better call.... but TB4 and USB4 use the same ports on a Mac (usb c styling)....and will just drop to the lower common denominator if it's in series etc... but the TB4 and 40 Gbs, and PCIE and display, and not muxing down... hmm... but I don't need all that more then I want compatibility....

and who knows, I'm not a computer scientist and haven't kept up on every new spec released etc, and could be being fed a load of horse crap reading spec sheets from months ago etc.

All I know is I got 4 ports that take TB4 and USB4 on their best day. TB4 would/might/could be better/faster if needed etc, but as this thread is saying, may not be long for the world... So I'd kinda rather bet on something that is.

 

on a side note, Thunderbolt 4 is fucked up on its own, Thunderbolt 3 is "better":

 

It's the story we all know too well - proprietary standards, money, greed. Nobody cares about you, but themselves, so your best bet is USB no matter what. Let's be thankful there is at least one standard that is backwards and upwards compatible, most of the time.

I'm never going to buy anything else but a USB interface, no matter sweet talk, sweet specifications, anything. Nothing matters more than compatibility with different computers and OSes. I already know my next interface is going to be either Audient iD22, 24, or 44 and I'm gonna be set for life. StudioKonnekt 48 died on me already but I repaired it. I wonder how much longer it's going to last and how much longer I'll be able to repair it (mostly just recapping). well everything dies eventually. Your pet, your family members, you, your country, your planet, star... only the universe is forever.

 

Last edited: Jun 24, 2024

Interesting, yeah, I haven't done the deep dig into it all yet myself tzzsmk, this OWC article kind of explains it more in detail with some clarity (if it's correct, but OWC ~usually~ is) ...but I know you have spent more time educating yourself on this, if it misrepresented here, I'm sure you will explain why and how...

https://www.owc.com/blog/whats-the-difference-between-thunderbolt-3-and-thunderbolt-4

 

Thunderbolt is a modern interface that is killed by stupid policies.
It is the most direct connection to the system comparable to pcie and therefore superior to anything else.
If Intel kills your pcie slots you wouldn't say "about time, we have pcie slots for way to long now".

 

Let us bow our heads and pray...

 

I never said anything like "It's about time it gets killed". I only say that you can't stop evolution, for the best and even for the worst. That's the way this and actually all things in life work. And like I said there are usually other ways to keep using your preferred hardware/interface?
But I personally think it's a good thing to start focusing and developing one interface instead of multiple. Maybe USB 3 doesn't have the best qualifications today? But who knows maybe the next generation will blow every other interface we know today to kingdom come?

 

The claim that Thunderbolt is “dead” is an exaggeration. The issue arises from an update to Thunderbolt 4 firmware (NVM 36), which broke compatibility with older Thunderbolt 1 and 2 devices. This has created problems for users relying on these older peripherals. The root cause seems to be related to addressing security vulnerabilities present in the older protocols. However, some manufacturers provide options to roll back to earlier firmware versions (NVM 31) to restore compatibility.

 

it's a bit clickbaity indeed, but Thunderbolt, meaning Thunderbolt 1 functionality, is literally dead after those firmware updates

 

Can I just say that was brilliant?

 

I guess I may have missed something. Is it that TB1 devices won't work anymore, or that the bios update demands TB3 or 4 protocol etc in reaction to a security threat? (meaning that a TB1/2 device should work with backwards compatibility if hooked up to a TB3/4 bus etc?)

If that is the case, I can't see it being a big whup at all to peoples existence and workflow with a machine that supports those..

 

this is no longer functional, TB 1/2 devices will no longer work when plugged in TB 3/4 motherboard port