I don't care if Elon or Orville and Wilbur are , or were idiots or not... at least the old timer "idiots" financed it
themselves. You raise your own venture capital from yourself and your rich idiot buddies.. then knock yourself out!!
Show the world how your ego driven aspirations will help everyone first.. then get your profits from that..

instead of lobbying government to take it out on the poor middle class idiot slobs
who are sucking wind economically already.. that is not only idiotic, it is unconscionable and evil...

Since MY tax money is being applied to this...I won't shy away from calling it a waste, in face of the very real
and potentially world destabilizing financial situation my country is in... not to mention the very real possibility that
there will be no such thing as social security for the aged ( neither the program nor the concept itself ).

It's not hard to imagine anything if you want to think out of the box..
the problem is, most people do not think outside the box, and in fact, will not,
following religions and such that more or less forbid it...and there are enough of them to ensure
that war beats an unending trail into the future. We now even have Russian ultranationalists
warning US that if we don't elect the right person for them... war is inevitable...

I don't want to ask people.. wow do you want to go to Mars ? I want to ask them.. can you handle reality?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2016

herr,

I can see you have put a lot of time into your way of thinking so don't worry, I am not here to change your mind at all. I respect that you have reviewed the information and have come up with the opinion you have based on your intellect level and your life experience.

I happen to disagree with you about most of this issue. I think most of the advancements in technology in the last century were the result of publicly financed efforts that involved a partnership with specialized companies (GE, Westinghouse, Pratt & Whitney, Rockwell) and government agencies like NASA and the Military. It took the genius and vision of the Wright Bros to discover the technology to fly, but it took a unified and decades long national effort to advance that idea beyond a bicycle shop into what became the national space program and the aerospace industry. An industry that began simply, transformed from weapons of war, to a means of public transport then interplanetary travel and eventually grew in to the pinnacle of technology allowing satellites and all forms of communication and commerce.

The purpose of government is to do for each other what we cannot do on our own. Especially with out consideration of the profit motive.

Rich people using their vast wealth to do only things that make them even more money is how we got into the mess we are currently in. It is not in the oil company's interest to bring zero emission low cost cars to the market or to create a sustainable renewable efficient power system for the world. It is in their interest to slander, ruin and murder the people that have the vision and talent to offer these things to the public. There is a well-documented recent history of them doing exactly that from Nikola Tesla all the way up to Elon Musk. I am sure your research taught you that.

Wherever the profit motive has replaced the basic humane treatment of people it has poisoned what it has touched. Competition is great, freedom is great... but they are not the ultimate and sole considerations. You cannot eat money, you cannot breathe or drink it either.

Look at all of the examples of the profit motive entering our public life. It is toxic and perverts the ancient virtues of civilization. Look at what it has done to the medical establishment, the food supply, the education system, the finance system, the function of law enforcement and prisons in our country, look what it has done to the military and intelligence agencies and to our government in total. It has made a mockery of our constitution and has put us on a path to endless war, disease and destruction of our environment and species. It has turned us into a festering cesspool of corruption, incompetence and ignorance.

When there is a profit to be made from human suffering we are on the wrong course. The food supply chain, medical industrial complex, the military industrial complex, the prison industrial complex and the political industrial complex are all shining examples of this.

Why should someone get rich because you got sick? Why should unjust laws be created and selectively enforced to create warehouses of prisoners paid for by taxpayers and create immense profits for private prison owners? Why should the US enter wars that are not matters of national security or survival but merely the interest of massive corporations to secure rare minerals and metals in Afghanistan or oil in Iraq or pipeline access in Syria?

So I respectfully disagree with your "by your own bootstraps", "free market", "not with my tax dollars" point of view. I think you may be operating on faulty information, although I could be mistaken.

Ironically, virtually all of your tax dollars are currently going to pay interest on an unplayable debt (that very few people even understand), also to line the pockets of war profiteers (all that money goes somewhere!) and to subsidize the largest, most profitable corporations in the history of the world like Exxon and Walmart.

Walmart is particularly despicable because they pay their employees a starvation wage and then you have to pay your tax dollars so the government can provide public assistance to their "employees" because Walmart doesn't actually pay them enough to survive. (A prime example for you of "One small step" away from Mad Max if Uncle Sam didn't step in). Pretty "bootstrappy" of that iconic american capitalist success story, Walmart is.

I am saying that it would be better to take our tax dollars and invest it in creating a society that is capable of reaching Mars someday. A society that is educated, healthy, and prosperous enough to even consider it. Of course there are a lot of other problems that need to be solved on the path to that goal (like a sustainable distribution of wealth so our civilization doesn't collapse). I think that would be a far better use of your money than what is happening with it now. (financing your own imprisonment.)

Life is a gamble, there are no sure bets. If I was offered a choice, I would bet on someone that is bringing affordable zero emissions cars to the public, developing practical solar power technology for the home and business, advancing the exploration of space and fighting against the takeover of earth by Artificial Intelligence and Big Data/Surveillance.

But that is just me.


I leave you with something from the Book "The Art of Worldly Wisdom" by Balthazar Gracian:

1. One half of the World laughs at the other, and Fools are they all. Everything is good or everything is bad according to the votes they gain. What one pursues another persecutes. He is an in-sufferable ass that would regulate everything according to his ideas. Excellences do not depend on a single man's pleasure. So many men, so many tastes, all different. There is no defect which is not affected by some, nor need we lose heart if things please not some, for others will appreciate them. Nor need their applause turn our head, for there will surely be others to condemn. The real test of praise is the approbation of famous men and of experts in the matter. You should aim to be independent of any one vote, of any one fashion, of any one century.

PS - What monitors are you using? Analog summing or all in the box?

 

Last edited: Oct 17, 2016

Zenarcist:

"This new business model for musicians"???

Really? How long have you been a musician? This "model" as you call it is nothing new... and entry-level musicians have been whining about it since the lute was first invented (ca 3000 BC).
You see, money is being made all the time by the millions and by musicians and artists who have been fortunate enough to succeed at EVERYTHING that it takes to be a "money-making-musician/performer/artist/composer". I know because I've been there once and have now the opportunity to do it again (albeit differently). It takes hard work. As in practicing an instrument 8-10 hours a day (computers are NOT instruments). Read music, write music, play music, eat music, breathe music, shit music, taste music, hate music and make love to music.
Then... and only then, do you stand a minuscule chance in hell of succeeding... because then you have to work even harder because someone else learned all that AND the marketing and business sides of it too.

Just because a person can piece together tracks in a DAW does not make one a musician, because laboratory monkeys can be taught that. It's the ability to compose a piece of MUSIC that will move someone to tears, or joy, or whatever... then you know you're onto something. But expect to paid for that??!! HA!!!!!!! Good luck... you want money? Go get a job... WE all had to.

 

ever get the feeling that your balls have been clawed?

cya!

​

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2016

I don't mind not making money, it's the people providing services to musicians who can't handle it, and continue as though nothing has changed regarding the old business model

Surely they should also adapt too?

 

preach!

 

Monetising our freely available art is currently problematic. The early media, radio, TV and the Press had the same problem. We listen to the radio and watch TV for free (excluding cable/satellite)... but we pay for the privilege by watching advertising. That's how the media solved the monetising problem. In fact it would be ironically wonderful if we could get the greedy corporations to give us their money for advertising their world lol. Advertising on the internet is problematic, so why aren't we doing something about making it usable. Instead of whingeing let's get solution-focused. OK just had an idea... how about including the advertising at the begining, in the middle, between tracks or at the end of the recording? Don't tell me that's silly, think about how you'd do it. In fact, thinking about it, aren't YouTube already doing that by sticking ads in now in the middle of videos. Just think of nicer ways of doing it.

 

Last edited: Oct 17, 2016

The change in the industry isnt really that had to grasp.
THe free end of the music(giving away mp3s etc is a means of people getting to your email list,from that point you use the jab jab jab punch tech for building a relationship with them)

The concept is pretty simple,your giving someone experiences.......as opposed to just the musical end of things,cultivating super fans.

The method and understanding is the 1000 true fans,have to spend 20$ atleast three times in the year.....by doing this,you get close to the hundred grand a year philosophy.
and i can name you hundred of musicians that are doing that......
listen to the first podcast here:
http://femusician.com/041/

Leah mchenry teaches a great course on how to do it....

Look up the monthly course from Musibusinessedge from james taylor.
the guys worked with the rolling stones jeff beck,megadeth you name it......teaches you all you need to get the ball rolling.

 

3 pages so someone's probably already said this, but before new technology came along there was always really good musicians who didn't make a living from it, they played for fun. you can always play live and build a following and use the net to just give a hint of what your about for promotional purposes, lot of people still want to support musician's they like. If that's not for you and you got talent then you can sell your compositions, company's need material for all sorts of things, just make sure you don't give it to anyone without having proof of ownership. It always takes hard work to get to the top of anything for most people, even rich kids don't get a easy ride these days though they may find it easier to get a foot in the door and get a chance to impress. so things have improved in some ways and you can make it more on merit. if you like to make music you enjoy, doesn't give you a right to be successful, you need to do what great composers did, write to order, give the client what they want and again that takes hard work as you have to be able to be very versatile. I know a brilliant guitarist who never got a break but he was very meticulous in all his studies and had the option of teaching, which has paid his bills and lets him spend his days in a sphere he loves not a factory or whatever, but it's still work, not fun unless you put the effort into making it fun. He quickly built a reputation from happy clients, he's never been short of pupils and can fully justify his fee's , he has to turn a lot of people away. Just remember many pop stars never survive long and they have to go back to the real world pretty quickly, which I bet is a pretty shit experience and that can be tougher than having never had their 5 minutes of fame.

 

Did you get a copy of my latest book? It is an autobiography and I think you are going to love it.

It's called "DIARY OF A LION TAMER".

 

I could wade through the turgidness and turbidity believe me.. but then it feels too much like being trolled

i'll keep an eye out for the bio tho.. purr purr

​

 

Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2016

well, can you be more specific on who these 3rd parties are (or could be) ?

the thing is, you must know the kind of business you're in,
and not go to this moment when you lose the hand on your work.

either it's a commercial agreement,
either it's stealing or used without consent