Dr Ad Heesive, my valued colleague I must inform you the lunatics have taken over the asylum. My advice to you as a consulting psychiatrist is that you leave this thread to the obsessively deranged inmates. Go now before you lose your own sanity.

 

If you'd like to know in 20 minute's in clear, concise language, the "secrets" of jazz I recommend the following.

 

As far as i know, that Farao account is MMJ's

 

Add Sir Jack Spratsky and you have the whole gang of sycophantic supporters of MMJ2017. And they're all him congratulating himself on his brilliance. This is actually quite sad and a little disturbing.

 

They are totally different respectable persons but one thing is common among them and it's that they look at music from the Jazz's perspective. Jazz musicians understand and listen to music from different angles than other guys do. They interpret the Harmony and melody differently.

 

On what do you base this assumption? How can you possibly know they are different people? And in what way are they respectable? Please define respectable and while you're at it, supply definitive proof that these identities are not the same.
I took the time to read all 35 pages of this topic and I can say that MMJ2017 can be quite intolerant when confronted by any view he opposes. In short, he shows no respect to people he feels are inferior to him. And that is everybody.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2019

My interpretation is different than yours so I am afraid that you equate me with them (3 individual guys) too. Please let's not make these discussions personal and focus on the last sentence of my previous post. This forum is about music not identities. Each identity is esteemed.

 

This particular post is about one thing only. MMJ2017.

 

OK! Make it personal but I don't play that game.

 

Thank you Beth, for two nice posts.

Your advice encouraging me to protect my sanity is sadly probably too late, but I'll keep consuming all the medicinal benefits that music offers and just hope for the best.

Your second post re: [20 minute's in clear, concise language, the "secrets" of jazz]
Careful about your own risky behaviour... offering clarity, or even correctness, in suggestions about music theory on this thread, is likely to see you ganged up on by the messiah - in all of his his various disguises.

Very nice video by the way. It is always nice to see someone deliver a 'no bullcrap' clear summary of the basics for Jazz Piano. My listening pleasure from Jazz is quite limited; a small subset of Jazz, I really love; and a large body of Jazz I fail to enjoy at all. But I think insights into 'genre neutral nuts and bolts of music' is often explained really really well by Jazz musicians. I think Jazz musicians do sometimes draw curiously different maps of the same music landscape, so I do enjoy figuring out how their maps are still just describing the same musical territory that we all explore. Plenty of that in your recommended video.

And that of course is what a music theory thread should be about, referring each other to 'good stuff' and enjoying it.
Not wasting time repairing the damage or just cringing over mountains of really shoddy stuff.

Sometimes, people posting here are accused of being negative about music theory. but nothing could be further from the truth. Many people posting here are objecting to seeing 'wonderful music theory' that they do care about, being debased by an ill-informed amateur, with delusions of grandeur.

 

Who do you think wrote this?

Hello my friend that's a great question.

So when we talk about form structure
Let's say key of c.
Next it's chord
CEGB
Next it's cadence.
Dmin7,G7,C6

We are talking about what all the instruments would add up to be the bass line the accompaniment, the soloist, singer, however many layers of riffs melody etc.

So whether melody me stacking melodies , whether notes after another or stacking them together .

The language and structure is identical for all of those .
Here is example.

Say I have a bar of G7 (and a bar of Cmaj afterwards)we just zeroing in on that G7 though.

This form structure means.
G7 GBDF it is a dominant which means
You have available options .
First the dim7 chord starting from the 3rd
BDFG# ( it's symmetrical)
Or G7 altered scale chord
G# A# B C# D# F G
Or another option the tritone substitution
C#7 C#FG#B
( Using C# Lydian dominant chord)
Finally we have the wholetime scale as option starting on G
GABC#D#FG

Those are our form options.
Once you select the form
Let's say G7 alt
(G#melodic minor )
1.G#minmaj
2.A#min7
3.Bmaj7#5
4.C#7 (Lydian dominant
5.D#7
6.Fmin7b5
7.Gmin7b5

We can use the chords of G# or Ab melodic minor in place or along with our G7

Let's select 6.Fmin7b5
These notes
FG#BD#

Now we still have our GBD triad in the bass
So
GBD ( lower pitch instruments)
And our FG#BD notes played by riffs or melody.

Our structure can be Any combination of instruments playing notes after another or these notes at same time as each other .
Sometimes different instruments notes layer in song other times it's one note after another .
You can do anything with
GBD....FG#BD
You want.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
wow now this is the real trip through the wormhole.....listen trolls...this is gold...you dont even have to dig "theory" just check this out with your ears.......home and hosed



You would be forgiven for thinking it's MMJ2017. But no, it's Sir Jack Spratsky. It doesn't take an extensive forensic examination to make an informed conclusion to ascertain they are one and the same.

 

beth displays yet more ignorance of the situation

 

Oh Jack, any fool can identify the similarities in style and syntax. You must think we are intellectually incapacitated and yet again you and MMJ2017 get enjoyment informing people of their ignorance. You both love feeling superior. But then you are the same person.

 

I'm just going to make an ignore list for the clowns
We need a clown car for all these clown shoes.
For one reason or another .
They do NOT have have any capacity to create a successful thread . So out of their creative impotence they take their anger out on who they misunderstand.
It's funny how clowns canEVEN misunderstand the demonstrable!
You folks can say anything you like and tell your clown fairy tales to each other And polish each other clown shoes all day.
Here is what I am going to do.
Make these threads post demonstrable information viewers of it can choose to use or not.
I'm done playing " how many clowns can we cram into this clown car"
Best of luck to you ❤️
I have a life to live .
You clowns tell your story's

While I DEMONSTRATE
The validity of my claims.

 

Last edited: Jul 17, 2019

So you are saying I go around to other people's threads and attack them because I am creatively impotent and have zero capacity to make my own thread? Therefore I take that anger out on other people's threads ?
....oh wait that's yourself right?
Go make your own thread with all the knowledge which is above mine.
It has to do better than my threads would.
And look at how mine do right?
That means because you know better and can demonstrate more you will be a massive hit
( I'll even come by and clown you )
Which one is it going to be?

 

Last edited: Jul 17, 2019

I just can not believe the words coming out of your mouth right now
That the entire of history of music is incorrect it REALLY goes backwards?
Instead of subdominant , to dominant resolving to Tonic ( tension release)
Your sitting there attempting telling me it actually works the other way? Lol
That it REALLY goes tonic dominant subdominant?
Really?
That's what you have to say ?
You cannot purchase entertainment of this caliber!
I love it!

And I suppose nahre would agree with you 100 percent?
( Except the video where she demonstrates that she disagrees)

I don't know how you can sit there and tell me the music of history if the world works that way!
( Or are you saying EACH song has its own music theory?)

What is your explanation why I can demonstrate
The entire history of tonal music in one line?
C major A rel min KEY equals

Bmin7b5,E7b9,Amin6,Dmin7,G7,C6

Over Fmaj7

It shows how harmony functions , it shows substitutions

Bmin7b5,A#7,Amin6,Dmin7,C#7,C6

It shows how the natural minor, harmonic minor , melodic minor are used.

It shows scale of chords

Bdim7 to C6 V to I ( not V to ii clown
BDFG#
CEGA
DFG#B
EGAC
FG#BD
GACE
G#BDF
ACEG
BDFG#
CEGA

What you are saying does not explain how everything works as a language
It does not explain how every separate peice of music theory becomes one.
C
Cmaj
Cmaj7
G7,C6
Dmin6,G7,C6
Dmin7,C#7,C6
A
Amin
Amin6
E7,Amin6
Bmin7b5,E7,Amin6
Bmin7b5,A#7,Amin6

Bmin7b5,E7b9,Amin6,Dmin7,G7,C6
Over Fmaj7
( All 7 chords and how they work)

I'm showing the structure from which all songs come ( tonal and modal songs)
Your doing the reverse
( Starting with a song, then inventing some type of music theory which fits that song but no others)
What would be the point in such an excersise ?
It's like taking some sentence , and inventing a new " x language" which only describes that sentence.
(
When you COULD just describe the sentence with the language which describes ALL sentences
Because the language is the deeper level from which any particular sentence arises (
I guess you are too dense for that clown shoe number 2 ( my new nickname for you )
You are really going out your way on this idea of a different music theory for each song lol

 

Last edited: Jul 17, 2019

We are talking about the song shown above
Fade into You by Mazzy - a three chord song - not some obscure fantasy in your head!

It is face the music time for you!
Yes or No - no more evasion, no more bullcrap - just straight answers!

1. The song has these three chords [A Major, E Major, B minor] - [YES or NO] ?
   
2. Those three chords are in key of A Major - [YES or NO] ?
   
3. Those three chords are [I, V, ii] - [YES or NO] ?

We all want to see your explicit answers to these very simple questions - do not duck the issue with stupid remarks.
Just answer ALL three questions with YES or NO
If you fail this simple test or avoid this simple test - then you expose yourself as the fraud we all know you are!

 

I am going to demonstrate .
Key of C major A rel minor
Step 1
C note is the focus .
All things in the key ARE about C .
Level of detail #1
Cmaj CEG
#2
V7 to I ,So GBDF to CEG
( The V7 creates movement away so you can land back on CEG with strength .
Level of detail #3
Iimin7 V7 Imaj
Dmin7,V7,Cmaj
( The ii chord allows to to add a 3rd level of detail ,
Instead of starting off way far from home then landing home , you can start a little away from home then go far THEN land home)
Subdominant, Dominant,Tonic
This creates motion .
It's all about C
C is the plot the main character
Dmin7,G7 ( are the struggle the plot thickens
Then land on Cmaj the hero overcomes obstacles
And wins

Summary
Levels of detail
1.tonic
2.dominant to tonic ( motion)
3.subdominant dominant tonic ( a full story back to home)

Dmin7,G7,Cmaj
Now that's only 3 of the chords in the key and how they EXACTLY work.
What about the rest?

Well, there is another hero in the story Amin
Levels of detail.
1.ACE
2.E7 to Amin ( introduce harmonic minors G# in E7
To have same thing G7,to Cmaj did
Away from home back to home.
Motion to stillness
3.Bmin7b5 E7,Amin6
( In next level of detail just like with Dmin7,G7,Cmaj
Subdominant dominant tonic
Little motion to full motion to still
Away home far far away to home.

Now we have 6 chords of the key and
EXACTLY what they do ( what they accomplish and why)
There is one chord left .
4.FACE Fmaj7

Now when we began it was stated the KEY of C major and A relative minor .
Why are they relatives?
Why are they connected in any way?
Why don't we for instance have a KEY called
C major G# relative minor?
C major B relative minor?
C major E relative minor ?
Why are we not speaking about any of those existing?
It's because the 4.chord
Fmaj7 FACE
Is the LINK
It connects C Maj and A relative minor .
Both them cadences ( 6 of the chords 9f key and the order they fit in)
Are consonant with Fmaj7 FACE
.
However there is no LINK
And no such thing as
C major F# relative minor
There is no link for those .

Now when we connect the cadence in order of dark to bright

Bmin7b5,E7,Amin6, Dmin7,G7,C6
Linked by Fmaj7

We not only get all 7 chords of the key
We get the secrets of music ( how it works itself how music itself exists as (

If we use tritone substitutes of the 2 dominants

Bmin7b5,A#7,Amin6,Dmin7, C#7,C6

Now we see the foundation for all types of music movement
( The way MUSIC works )

When we can see the subject matter
Cmaj
Then see the story added
GBDF to CEGB
V7 and it's substitutions
C#FG#B
Now we have the basis and foundation for chromatism
BCC#
B from V7 , C# from tritone sub
C is tonic .
All the structure I've outlined can now be applied to EVERY SINGLE CHORD in the KEY.
1.Dmin7,G7,C6....Dmin7,C#7,C6
2.Emin7b5,A7b9,Dmin6.....Emin7b5,D#7,Dmin6
3.F#min7b5,B7b9,Emin6...F#min7b5,F7,Emin6
4.Gmin7,C7,Fmaj6..Gmin7,F#7,Fmaj6
5.Amin7,D7,G7........Amin7,G#7,G7
6.Bmin7b5,E7b9,Amin6....Bmin7b5,A#7,Amin6
7.C#min7b5,F#7,Bmin7b5..C#min7b5,C7,Bmin7b5


Now we can take any tonic and add the V7 chord
( In the form of dim7 chord)
To create a scale of chords.

Say Cmaj6 CEGA
It's V7 as a dim7 BDFG# Bdim7
Watch V7 to I through all inversions

BDFG#
CEGA
DFG#B
EGAC
FG#BD
GACE
G#BDF
ACEG
BDFG#
CEGA

What about Amin6 ? ( E7 in form of Bdim7 BDFG#
G#BDF
ACEF#
BDFG#
CEF#A
DFG#B
EF#AC
FG#BD
F#ACE
G#BDF
ACEF#

What about C7 ? CEGA#?
BDFG#
CEGA#
DFG#B
EGA#C
FG#BD
GA#CE
G#BDF
A#CEG
BDFG#
CEGA#

Now we have ANY chord and it's V7 chord converted such to get a scale of chords.
( Because maj6 equals min7 C6 CEGA equals ACEG Amin7)
Min7b5 equals min6
Bmin7b5 BDFA equals Dmin6 DFAB(
Now with the shown scales of chords
A person can attach chords to any melody
EVEN over a long section of one chord a scale of chords can be create travelling through inversions of
V7 to tonic.

You see this language explains every possibility
For tonal music
( Different for other types music )

Modal is different .
It uses the basic structure but in slow motion such the melodies sound like floating above .

 

Last edited: Jul 17, 2019

Modal music language.
Part I
( Connection with tonal language)

Now
Once we have the foundations described before regarding tonal music we can understand Modal language .
It's different BUT it has its basis in tonal music.

So with modal music you have no resolution.
No tension and release .
You have the harmony slow motion and the melodies float above in UNITY

If we look at the key of C major

Bmin7b5,E7b9,Amin6,Dmin7,G7,C6
Over Fmaj7

We can see from a modal perspective
The cadence of A minor And cadence of c major
Are in unity with
4.Fmaj7 FACE
And 4.DMin7DFAC

So even though say the cadence to Amin
Is subdominant dominant tonic
Bmin7b5,E7b9,Amin6
If you have A be the center focus

If you have the cadence
Instead focus on dmin7
So
BDFA,EG#BD,ACEF#
Changing over top of
DFAC

In this instance D is the center point .
Now the Amin cadence is in unity
It means those chord float overtop Dmin7.

And if we look at C cadence
Dmin7,G7,C6
DFAC,GBDF,CEGA
Focused on 4.Fmajor7 FACE
As a center point ( instead of how C us normally the focus (
Then the Dmin7,G7,C6
Is all in unity with Fmaj7.

This means a few things .
First our knowledge of
Tonal language is connected to modal language
Also there is a connection between the two languages
By having A min And C Maj cadences play over top of Fmaj7 and Dmin7
You can integrate all tonal options into modal ones .

 

Part II

Modal music language .

Let's first start with the notion of unity .
If we take the idea of consonance
We know that the octave is the same note but higher or lower
Say F and F.( Octave up)

Now inside of the F note is harmonics which make up the timbre of the sound itself .
The next most consonant note after the octave is the 5th.
F to C
The C is already a sound inside the F note byitself .
It is slightly less consonant than the F octaves
So by using this 5th.
We can create a 7 note scale were F is the center focus .
We find out what next note to be in the scale by traveling up A 5th .
F to C
C to G
G to D
We keep going and we get this note collection .

FCGDAEB

Next arrange in order
FGABCDEF

This happens to already have a name is called F Lydian .

Now because of how we constructed it ( of course inside context of equal temperament )
We know this collection with F as it's center is in unity .
Unity means all the notes in the scale are consonant
Now unique to modal music .
Is 5 chords created from the scale .
( Each of these 5 chords are in unity with Fmaj7
However they each have their own flavor against Fmaj this means 5 options to express the Fmaj sound)
1.Fmaj7......... .FACE
2.G7. ............. GBDF
3.Bmin7b5 ......BDFA
4.Dmin7..........DFAC
5.Emin7...........EGBD

Each of these 5 flavors can be used withFmaj7


(Note there is no such thing as Ionian or aeolian flavors as those are just inversions of the Fmaj chord.)
How to use these 5 flavors
You play Fmaj on bottom ringing out
Then any of the 5 flavors on top( upper octaves( doing anything you like.

This is the foundation for our modal
Major sound .

Next we have our foundation for the modal minor sound.

1.Fmaj7..........FACE
2.G7.................GBDF
3.Bmin7b5.......BDFA
4.Dmin7..........DFAC
5.Emin7...........EGBD


Over Dmin7.

Is our minor modal foundation .
Just like before we have 5 flavors of Dmin7
We use same way a slowly ringing out Dmin7 on bottom and those 5 flavors in higher octave in top .