The Secrets of Music. Hard to Find Info Techniques

Discussion in 'Education' started by MMJ2017, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. itisntreal

    itisntreal Member

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    this is what you wrote after you quote my post
    if it was a joke nevermind.
    im not a clown flat earther and i know how to push a button
    the only reason why i was here was because of the music theory
    sorry for calling you a ego tripper my bad
     
  2. george31

    george31 Newbie

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    @MMJ2017
    :

    Hi ,
    Could you please post a short example that you made , about things that you write about .
    The links you give are made by people who know their stuff and illustrate it with musical examples that they make .
    You would get more credit by letting us hear how do you use elements that you write .
    (because your example http://jamen.do/t/186921 does not reflect the theory you present here

    Just takes some minutes to record or write some bars on musical staff .
    Thank you in advance :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  3. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    And I apologise If me clowning around to not be so serious a nall strucktje time nerve with you my f
    Friend.you are def welcome here .I'm happy you came.

    I don't think badly or judge anyone regarding their musical journey.
    I do however judge myself.
    I spend everyday studying .
    I expect of myself to master each aspect of music from playing instruments to composing, producing, engineering, live sound , sound design .music history
    Study of styles musicology .
    On this journey I'm on with myself ,
    I share information on this website that I myself am developing and trying to master over time
    I try to give people things to advance themselves .
    If they want to .

    If you check out my thread series ,
    " What is real or not"
    You can also see the things I am developing
    About myself that I haved shared if itcan help others possibly .
    Those areas range from navigating my thought process through differentiating fantasy from reality inside of my thoughts,
    As well as philosophical issues .
    I'm just trying to give you a bit info to connect to the real person who I am.
    This is another component of my development which is very important to me.
    The understanding of thinking about someone in our thought process symbolically , compared to the real actual person who exists in reality .
    Many times that can be difficult .
    I use techniques such as trying not to make assumptions , try not to create a storyline with charactor about someone in my mind on imcomplete information . And managing expectations inside the psychological framework
    It is a combination of all these areas,
    Which informs the way I comment and communicate
    Along with the specific content of the threads ,
    And of course the interacting with people.
    If you can search for my name and check out some of the various threads I have made on these topics .
    All around us is information which can make positive impact on life.
    Whenever I come across that and develop it for my life I try to share it just in case it makes a positive difference for someone who may have not run into it before hand since we all on different parts of our journey in life at different times .
    Thank you friend.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  4. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Hello my friend.
    Yes sure I can do that .

    And yes you are right the 20 year old music is 100 made without any knowledge about music. It was made totally ignorant of music.
    I tried to put a few critiques of my old stuff through the currents mes, eyes.
    Sure I can make more stuff. That uses the info

    I have hesitated in the past to put content or growing content about my personal self because I don't want what I do here to turn into being about myself instead of music.
    It's been requested enough though .
    Also I think I could be helpful in different aspects
    Especially that for example one can break down and study jazz theory and music theory and create totally different genres . Just because a component of music theory might have some connection to jazz theory historically does not mean that a person HAS to make jazz or whatever genre the information has a historical connection with .
    Ill keep in touch about it.
    Coming up I'll make something which uses the information I present in my threads.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  5. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    I am beginning the sound design along with pre production phase of writing brand new music demonstrating the information I been presenting .
    I will continue to update .
    Thanks my friends .
    I'm going to try to make it the best music I can
    Even setting the impossible task of writing the best song I have ever heard :(°°
    That's damn difficult do it take some time.
    But I'm do my best .
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  6. george31

    george31 Newbie

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    @MMJ2017
    Hi again ,
    You wrote :
    "I'm going to try to make it the best music I can
    Even setting the impossible task of writing the best song I have ever heard :(°°
    That's damn difficult do it take some time."

    No , don't worry or bother my friend , I am not asking for anything great , or great song or anything like that .
    Just some short music examples (a few bars will do fine) demonstrating what you do with the material you present here .
    Thx in advance ...
     
  7. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Thanks for taking the pressure off me.
    ( I do that to myself by the way lol)
    I can do those for you.
    I do also want to make a song to demonstrate some things .
    (Maybe I shouldn't attpt the best song ever been written at this time though :( lol)
    Here just for fun by the jazz duets fellow

     
  8. george31

    george31 Newbie

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    No pressure at all , just write or record a few bars , it takes only some minutes to upload with the modern tools at our disposal .
    btw, Jazz Duets stuff is great , but i don't ask for so so much ...
    Take it E-Z , i just want to hear examples of what you teach applied in context . When i say 8 bars , 4 bars could do as well depending off the
    subject-technique off course !
     
  9. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    While i work on it something to check out I seen today





    The way I teach is like this.
    The music language ( there is few)
    I don't spend lot of time teaching people
    Specific lines or rhythms ( like what you hear in composition or song)
    I teach lot about the structure itself try to
    Teach someone explore every option .
    So if you record something a song a composition a excersise
    That is just one choice made in a moment followed by another choice in a moment added up to be the duration of the peice.
    But that isn't helpful for the other thousand choices not made in a moment.
    So this is why I focus much more on the music language aspect.( Like these videos )
    Instead of getting someone to play one thing in time.
    I try get them play every version if a concept
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  10. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Our short-term memory can only hold a limited number objects at a time.
    But by categorizing and prioritizing it can do much more .then your brain can unpack it .
    We use this all the time especially with everyday things like our spoken language .
    Conceptual thought framework .
    Like a image or video of a person. That is a chunk made of of items .circle for head 2 eyes circles circle mouth etc. So when we see image it's just chunked out to one object * person*

    These things are especially important with music also .
    You can eventually store music's language in your subconscious this way through chunking out things .
    If you take a key like c major/ a minor
    C major is first level detail ceg
    Second is cadence
    G7, C6
    Third
    Dmin7,G7,C6
    Then
    Amin
    Next
    E7,Amin6
    Next
    Bmin7b5,E7,Amin6
    Now we arrived at 2 objects
    Dmin7,G7,C6 ( cadence is expansion of c chord
    Bmin7b5,E7,Amin6(cadence is expansion Amin chord
    That's 6 of 7
    Last chord is FMaj7
    The link
    All 7 chords as one object

    Bmin7b5,E7,Amin6,Dmin7,G7,C6
    Over
    Fmaj7

    We can do this type of chunking out for everything in music language .
     
  11. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Using this tool of categorization and prioritization or chunking out in order to have the brain instantly access and unpack in order information related to a topic related to chords.
    So starting from the chromatic scale
    Cc#Dd#EFf#Gg#Aa#BC

    What is the chord that all other chords could be derived from?

    It is the dim7th chord.
    Say Bdim7 chord
    BDFG# stacking minor 3rds

    Picture one note above and one note below this chord like a bicycle combination lock.

    A#.C#.E.G.
    B...D...F..G#.
    C...D#.F#.A

    You can see by doing this all 12 notes related to
    B dim in center.
    By sliding the note up or down modify the chord to be another.
    BDFG# is Bdim7
    Slide any note up get min7b5
    BDFA
    C
    DFG#
    BD#FG#
    BDF#G#

    Slide any note down get dominant7th
    BDFG#
    BDFG
    BDEG#
    BC#FG#
    A#DFG#

    Slide two in row up or down to get maj6, minor7
    G#BDF
    ACDF
    G#BD#F#
    G#CD#F
    ABDF#

    G#BDF
    GBDE
    G#BC#E
    GA#
    DF

    Slide two spaced down to get dom7b5
    BDFG#
    BC#FG
    A#
    DEG#

    Because there is only 3 dim7 chords in chromatic scale
    This means by doing this for all 3 of them you create everyt type chord in any location on an instrument
     
  12. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Producer

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    MMJ, I fully applaud your bringing Nahre Sol to everyone's attention.
    i.e., the videos you posted above from
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8R8FRt1KcPiR-rtAflXmeg

    She is a truly awesome talent. I very much like her quote from one of her videos...
    "Whatever you do with music, it always has to have some sort of purpose other than just being an intellectual exercise because otherwise what's the point."

    My (wholly inadequate) summary of her would be...
    1. She is a brilliant classically trained pianist, but she portrays an attitude of "that's no big deal, that just gives me license to have fun"
    2. She is totally reverent toward the great classical composers but she also behaves towards their music like a five year old child having immense fun playing with a ball - it's fabulous to watch.
    3. She has terrific analytical insight and is a gifted communicator about what she can hear, see, and explain.
    4. and all of what I said above is an understatement of her talent.
    Watch her and be gobsmacked.
    When she talks about music theory - I pay attention.
     
  13. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    She is magnificent ❣️
     
  14. Radioactive Fallout

    Radioactive Fallout Ultrasonic

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    Just pianist (reading, memorizing and performing the pre-written notes) not composer. She can only teach styles not composition.
     
  15. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Producer

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    :rofl:
    So is that a form of blindness, deafness, or both? I'd get that problem seen to if I was you :winker:

    You somehow convinced yourself that none of these qualify as compositions ?
     
  16. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    So for myself the term " composer"
    Is a container as a description of several components. ( Like pretty much every word we use)
    But regarding " composer" specifically.
    The way I understand it
    Is several components of required understanding
    Related to the language ( languages) of music .
    When you zoom in on a component you can see the inner details involved.
    1. Form
    Form is at the heart of any language .
    It is differentiating sense from nonsense.
    Chaos vs order .
    Nothing vs something .
    In musical language
    Each component has a attribute of form.
    The song structure form
    " Exples AABC,ABAB,ABCD,ABAC etc.
    Where each new letter introduces new brand new musical section .
    You have the form of harmony. ( Intelligence
    You have form of Rhythm ( body clock feel
    You have form of melody( heart

    And so on . When you really look at the way music works and start to understand it separate parts.
    Categorizing Nd prioritizing them
    You are building up the skills required to be great composer.
    Now you say because she spent lot of time reading music off a page she not a composer?
    Well that could be true if a person only reads off pate and that's it.
    Nahre sol began studying and learning sings compositions and how yo read off page and play it.
    But then over time began to look at the deeper level in the music .
    These components I Ike how I gave an example of one form.
    As she developed an understanding of deeper level
    She eventually got to a point of being able to demonstrate her ability to make compositions .
    So my point is that.
    You can see demonstrable evidence of her knowing the music language to a degree of categorizing and prioritizing elements . Such as to hAve the ability to use the components existing inside the language of music to compose .

    In this video Nahre demonstrates the knowledge of the deeper level of musical language , such that she can not only do it .she can articulate for others how music composition itself works, what it takes to compose and what steps you can follow for yourself to understand deep enough to do the same thing .
     
  17. Radioactive Fallout

    Radioactive Fallout Ultrasonic

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    Great! Some classroom's exercises on YT.
    No guarantee to become a great composer via playing any instrument for years. Reaching deeper levels occurs via thinking and inventions not playing or pale imitation of other people's works.
     
  18. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    I really agree with this .
    One of my main teaching ( and learning)
    Methods is to present the categorical concept ,
    Then have the person " find things out " on their own. Putting it to use exploring every option .
    In the context of a already meaningful song of theirs or coming up with a new song adding in variations.
    That is the way I think of " invention "
    Regarding music .
    Figuring out the secrets of music .
    ( That which is unknown to the person becomes revealed to them in their creations(
    However
    The whole imitation thing, this is crucial in the early stages to outline each type of form and possible variations . ( Music language identical as spoken language in this way)
    But I'm just curious if your standards are so high that showing you demonstrable evidence of a person literally showing in realtime how music works for composition ( not being considered ability for composition )
    Maybe you could show us something of yours which is higher caliber than hers? ( Which you claim is not composition)
    Next , could you give an example of yourself which is not imitation?
    Could you show a condition of yours which has something not previously done by another?

    I ask because my impression is that your position is that music is not literally a language .

    Just wondering if the video of hers demonstrably showing composition , is somehow NOT that
    What IS examples of it?

    You don't believe in form?

    How do YOU ( or DO you?) Group structures larger than notes,scales,chords?

    You don't use cadences?
    You don't have song sections?
    You don't use the same forms which other people already understand , as a springboard for creatively?

    If not, what DO you do?

    Show us yourself on higher level than copying and imitating .
    And higher level than playing instruments for years .


    I would be more willing to accept your musical philosophy as being accurate description of yourself
    If you can demonstrate that you are not just coming up with these rationalisations as an excuse to not being working hard studying music and improving everyday
    ( Say for example you make all these claims
    Then subsequently show me the most original lovely song if yours that not like anything else and sounds amazing )
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  19. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Introduction to chord progression ....


    If we look at the form of harmony the very first
    Type of chord progression .

    Is a cadence. ( Although it's really extension of tonic chord)

    In KEY of C major CDEFGAB

    Integrated into the key are 2 cadences Linked
    Together
    Cmajor cadence iimin7....V7....I6
    Dmin7 DFAC. G7 GBDF. C6 CEGA

    Aminor cadence iimin7b5....V7b9....Imin6
    Bmin7b5 BDFA...E7b9 EG#BDF....Amin6..ACEF#

    They are linked with IV chord Fmajor7 FACE (dminDFAC)

    Following this internal structure we have 2 types of cadence major and minor which we apply to every chord in a key .
    1.CEGB.........Dmin7,G7,C6
    2.DFAC..........Emin7b5,A7b9,Dmin6
    3.Emin7.........F#min7b5,B7b9,Emin6
    4.FACE...........Gmin7,C7,F6
    5.GBDF...........Amin7,D7
    6.ACEG...........Bmin7b5,E7b9,Amin6
    7.BDFA............C#min7b5,F#7b9,Bmin6


    Next you would follow cycle of fourths diatonically

    Bmin7b5,E7,Amin6,Dmin7,G7,C6,Fmaj7,Cmajor

    Shrink that down .

    Emin7,A7,Dmin7,G7,Cmajor

    You can see we make Amin7 into V of iimin7
    A7 to Dmin7 is V to I

    This is a turnaround .
    We can modify the iimin7 chord to become Imajor
    C6,A7,Dmin7,G7,C6

    Next up we have cycle of fourths with Dominant chords

    B7,E7,A7,D7,G7,C7,F7,Bb7,Eb7,Ab7,Db7,Gb7,Bb7

    Next we can modify this .
    B6 B7 E6 E7 A6 A7 D6 D7 G6 G7 C6 C7 F6 F7 etc.


    We have covered a lot of ground with the components which make up progressions in the key of C major ( this works same for any key )

    However not EVERY harmonic motion is a V to I
    Or a ii V I

    You also have subdominant category of progressions .

    Cmaj7 Fmaj7 Cmaj7
    This is a I to IV to I
    Next
    Cmaj7 ( Gmin7,C7,Fmaj7)
    Then
    Dmin7,G7,Cmajor(Gmin7,C7,Fmajor)

    End of part I
     
  20. Radioactive Fallout

    Radioactive Fallout Ultrasonic

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    Sorry, unexplainable for now, maybe a few centuries later, somebody discovers and tries to unscramble them.:dunno:
     
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