But who cares??? How many here are seeking advice on jazz theory? Enough to justify the hundreds of pages of tiny diagrams that mean nothing to 99.9999% of the members here.

 

But he wants to help my revered friend. Please let's not feel annoyed.

 

and you actually think you're going to find them here more easily than just using Google and Youtube?

And you genuinely can't tell the difference between gems and junk? man that's tragic!

MMJ does have enough authentic knowledge and enough authentic passion to discover gems on the Internet where they are NOT SECRET and NOT HARD TO FIND. These are NOT HIDDEN, they are trivially easy to find for anyone that wants to look (even 66 year old drummers ought to get the hang of it).

Even so, it is genuinely to be applauded every time MMJ finds a nice video gem and posts a link to it here. If only he could just do that and be suitably humble about it, then that would be great.
But his 2nd hand scruffy regurgitation of those gems, in the form of miles of painfully boring notes, presented as though from the messiah with unique insights, is an embarrassment to anyone that knows anything about education.

MMJ, please do carry on finding the videos, most of them are genuinely interesting, and for the ultra lazy or inept people who can't find them for themselves, you are actually doing them a favour.
But stop trying to pretend that these videos are there just to support your glorious theories, when in reality the videos are actually good, and all those tedious pages of scruffy messiah-style notes are just a tacky very low quality regurgitation of the ideas in those videos.

=======

If anyone wants some obvious replacements for all that tedious scruffy stuff...
Here are just four examples, of NOT HARD TO FIND, NOT SECRET, high quality resources, for BASIC music theory.
What you WILL find in all of these free resources is well presented, well thought out, coherent descriptions of many aspects of basic music theory. Something you are NOT getting in this thread!

• http://www.daveconservatoire.org Lots of short informative videos. A major plus point is that it presents music theory without music notation until such time as you choose to also explore music notation.
• https://www.musictheory.net/lessons
• http://teoria.com
• http://openmusictheory.com/contents.html

This is the 21st Century. As a self-motivated learner, with access to the Internet, you are spoilt for choice. And that means you CAN and SHOULD, demand very high quality. Why settle for anything less? It is YOUR education at stake - always.

 

Last edited: Jul 9, 2019

You have exposed your misunderstandings at least.
It is demonstrable that the information I just posted is deeper than the timbre and cultural attributes of a particular genre.
I posted information about music language
Not the shallow surface level of TIMBRE
I don't know how many brain cells it takes to screw in a light bulb.
However I DO know the number of brain cells that it takes to recognize that whether playing trumpet, sax , saw wav synth guitar or banjo
If the melody is the same the music is the same ND the emotion is the same.
3 it takes three braincells to recognize that.

Next in my comments on triad pairs I discuss the workings of music regarding notes .
Whether one after another or some together .
It takes 3 braincells to recognize that most instruments we use are based on these notes and the comments are demonstrating how these notes themselves work in reality.
NOT that you should use certain timbres to do something, not that you are restricted from high pass high q filtered saw wavs with Sample reducing bit crushers.
No such restrictions need apply.
Now that I said what shouldn't needed to have been said .( Fkking obvious mofo)
Let's leave the strawman to the farmers.
And use our 6 braincells to actually address the reality of my question to you?
( Or do we need to explain the definition of timbre for the class on order to use 3 more brain cells?)

 

Welcome back NotsoBrite.
If I eat 3 meals a day take a shower everyday .clean everyday.study everyday.
Do those qualify too ?

 

NotsoErect,
What is your explanation why this thread has high number of views and traffic and why I get contracted by hundreds people a week about the content? Next what is your explanation
Why out of all the things you could be doing with your life ( like playing bingo for example ;D)
You are coming here? Why so? What are you attempting to accomplish?
Lay out the best scenario for what you could possibly accomplish being in this thread ( which is a useless as you say?)

 

017[/USER] , thanks a lot for your cool theory posts.

I was wondering what you had to say about riffs, and motifs. For music styles where instead of flowing melodies or harmonies, we have essentially instantaneously grabbing dabs of sound that sit together rhythmically and interact as the track goes on, something perhaps similar to what Stravinsky attempted in the Rite of Spring in the classical world, but of course centered on the modern sequencer not the orchestra.

What are the best methods you've found to build the catchiest riffs and hooks, taking into consideration that they MUST be short and hard hitting, memorable, stir you up inside? No time for classical-inspired triadic noodling or arps, how would you work if you were limited to very short phrases and had to invent the catchiest rhythmic/melodic hooks?[/QUOTE]
Hello my friend that's a great question.

So when we talk about form structure
Let's say key of c.
Next it's chord
CEGB
Next it's cadence.
Dmin7,G7,C6

We are talking about what all the instruments would add up to be the bass line the accompaniment, the soloist, singer, however many layers of riffs melody etc.

So whether melody me stacking melodies , whether notes after another or stacking them together .

The language and structure is identical for all of those .
Here is example.

Say I have a bar of G7 (and a bar of Cmaj afterwards)we just zeroing in on that G7 though.

This form structure means.
G7 GBDF it is a dominant which means
You have available options .
First the dim7 chord starting from the 3rd
BDFG# ( it's symmetrical)
Or G7 altered scale chord
G# A# B C# D# F G
Or another option the tritone substitution
C#7 C#FG#B
( Using C# Lydian dominant chord)
Finally we have the wholetime scale as option starting on G
GABC#D#FG

Those are our form options.
Once you select the form
Let's say G7 alt
(G#melodic minor )
1.G#minmaj
2.A#min7
3.Bmaj7#5
4.C#7 (Lydian dominant
5.D#7
6.Fmin7b5
7.Gmin7b5

We can use the chords of G# or Ab melodic minor in place or along with our G7

Let's select 6.Fmin7b5
These notes
FG#BD#

Now we still have our GBD triad in the bass
So
GBD ( lower pitch instruments)
And our FG#BD notes played by riffs or melody.

Our structure can be Any combination of instruments playing notes after another or these notes at same time as each other .
Sometimes different instruments notes layer in song other times it's one note after another .
You can do anything with
GBD....FG#BD
You want.[/QUOTE]

 

whew thanks MMJ back to the interesting stuff......some of your trolls here are just plain boring.....their last screeching squealing proved what i knew....... wannabe losers one and all...please MMJ lets keep the good juice flowing...ignore them...bravo you

 

Hello my friend that's a great question.

So when we talk about form structure
Let's say key of c.
Next it's chord
CEGB
Next it's cadence.
Dmin7,G7,C6

We are talking about what all the instruments would add up to be the bass line the accompaniment, the soloist, singer, however many layers of riffs melody etc.

So whether melody me stacking melodies , whether notes after another or stacking them together .

The language and structure is identical for all of those .
Here is example.

Say I have a bar of G7 (and a bar of Cmaj afterwards)we just zeroing in on that G7 though.

This form structure means.
G7 GBDF it is a dominant which means
You have available options .
First the dim7 chord starting from the 3rd
BDFG# ( it's symmetrical)
Or G7 altered scale chord
G# A# B C# D# F G
Or another option the tritone substitution
C#7 C#FG#B
( Using C# Lydian dominant chord)
Finally we have the wholetime scale as option starting on G
GABC#D#FG

Those are our form options.
Once you select the form
Let's say G7 alt
(G#melodic minor )
1.G#minmaj
2.A#min7
3.Bmaj7#5
4.C#7 (Lydian dominant
5.D#7
6.Fmin7b5
7.Gmin7b5

We can use the chords of G# or Ab melodic minor in place or along with our G7

Let's select 6.Fmin7b5
These notes
FG#BD#

Now we still have our GBD triad in the bass
So
GBD ( lower pitch instruments)
And our FG#BD notes played by riffs or melody.

Our structure can be Any combination of instruments playing notes after another or these notes at same time as each other .
Sometimes different instruments notes layer in song other times it's one note after another .
You can do anything with
GBD....FG#BD
You want.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
wow now this is the real trip through the wormhole.....listen trolls...this is gold...you dont even have to dig "theory" just check this out with your ears.......home and hosed...thnx MMJ more please

 

Let's look at difference between the form ( structure) of music, compared to specific to things being played.
Let's say G7 is our form and we select the G HW diminished scale as our structure .
This means
G7 ( GBDF). Dominant ( tension which resolves to Cmajor or Cminor )

G half whole diminished scale means 2 dim7th chords stacked on each other Gdim7 GA#C#E
G#dim7 G#BDF (

So
G G# A# B C# D E F G

There is 2 chords in the scale
A#dim7 A#C#EG
Bdim7 BDFG#


So now that we have our form ( structure)

Let's look at specific things to be played using it.

Bass line
BFGDC#FG#B

Melody 1 left side speaker

BEFDC#
Melody 2 right side speaker
FBDA#G

Melody center slow speed
F.....BC#......G#D........


Here is another ex.

G7 GBDF
Using Lydian dominant. ( D melodic minor)
GBDFAC#E

That's our form here is ex of playing things

Baseline slow G.....D....F ......B......

Riff left speaker.

FG......C#D.....G#

Riff right speaker
FDBG ( descending quarter notes

Center speaker .


B....F.G...A..C#.....F...B

 

Who are you trying to convince with this comment?
Yourself?
Me?
The hundreds of thousands people in total in the last 2 years I been here who have visited my threads?
I'm just not sure .
It seems like you are trying to convince yourself that this comment is true .
You have invented a story about a charactor ( mmj2017)your imaginings don't match reality .

But what you have not done is look at just the facts.
Look at when I joined , what threads I have posted , the number of views they get and the response they get ( hundreds thousands of views in my threads in 2 years since I arrived .)

Okay now look at the facts of your username .
When you arrived , what you have done since being here. How that has been received by people .

Let's stick to reality .
Let's be real clear and honest with ourselves
About the situation.
Now when we do this how does the fabricated storyline you thought up with me as a character in this plot. How does that hold up to the cold hard facts everyone can see?
I'll let the person read this right now decide for themselves .

 

@notsoloud and @Ad Heesive please don't try to convince him. He's inconvincible by any kind of evidences for the time being.


What he does is just building a general framework for improvisation by more players. He thinks if he can plan that framework, he will be able to make any kind of music but it's just a common imagination among them. General frameworks lead to general music not customized ones.

 

Exactly! and if general music (not customized or music stylistically unified within its own self-defined universe) does not interest you, why do you insist on commenting on MMJ2017 posts (and similes)?

 

Convince me of what?
There was no speak of reality , just storytelling divorced from events that have taken place.

This whole thing about general framework
Would the English language be considered a general framework in your mind?
Ya know
Alphabet ( notes)
Words ( melody ,chords,
Sentence ( song section
Paragraph ( song

Do does using the English language lead to generic results?
Does everyone say the same idea with same sentence?

You just keep spouting out these
Demonstrably incorrect statements

And constantly shiw all those that read your comments what it's like to be musically ignorant
And it drives up my views!
You trolls are a good send!
It makes it so easy on me because
You trolls show constant real world examples of musical ignorance and musically illiterate how it dement's your views and how you can't create any music
Then people view it see all these real world examples of the musically illiterate .
And I NEVER have to put a lick of effort into to advertising so sweet!
Hundreds thousands of views because a couple numbnut trolls actually demonstrably showing real world results.
I appreciate what you are doing.
You are always welcome.
Please spend time out of your life to come here and drive up my numbers and help me spread more music education ! God bless!

 

Wait don't convince him to stop !
It's these numbnuts
That drive my numbers so high.
People see real world examples of where being musically illiterate and ignorant lead people lol
It's great. Have your friends show up and do it as well
Best part is they don't even KNOW to feel embarrassed so they just keep driving up my traffic .

Hey brah
I have a unique and original thing I'd like to say ( not generic whatsoever

Gfjffj iuhmhi rewfjj jjojkuf hfdgj yjgj
See how original it is?
So much so that it is just gibberish
Damn I thought creating a original combination of letters would be meaningful shucks

 

To everyone here: This thread is about music theory, If you have something to say about the content of this thread go on, but if you only come here to discredit the initial goal of this thread, please pass your way, there is room for every topic at Audiosex.
But there is no room for trolls.

This thread is not a question, so there is no one to convince of nothing.
MMJ2017 decided to share music theory, he didn't ask anyone's opinion about if theory is useful or not. So respect the thread's author.
You want to debate about the usefulness of theory? Good, please feel free to create your own thread about it.

Anymore off topic, please report.

 

Last edited: Jul 9, 2019

off topic oke
its nice someone is actually trying to explain his knowledge about music theorie but
let me make 1 thing clear after reading 30 pages i still dont get it
and i cant stand his arrogant big ego tripping behavior with his quotes clown shoes and red and green button bullshit flat earth nonsens
my english is not that good for normal conversations and im not the smartes but definetely not a complete retard
dont act like your the man because u know this and that about music theory!!!

 

I don't know what you mean friend?
Arrogant is making jokes sometimes to not be so serious?
I get asked to not be so serious so I try to accommodate.
I am getting asked several things by many different
People I try to full fill requests
But when someone like you is saying thinks like accusations of arrogance . Your going to just have to describe what you mean , because from my point of view I'm putting up information for free asking nothing you don't even know who I am .
How can that possibly be arrogant!
Arrogant would be modifying the situation such that it was about me my name and myself, second I wouldn't spend even 5 mins of something not getting paid for . I can go on listing arrogance .
But cracking a couple jokes now and then to not be so serious?
Nah.
Are you a flatearther?
Is that what this is about?
That type of belief needs to be intensely ridiculed
Since it has been proved wrong everyday for 3000 y
Years. If THAT can't be ridiculed what kind of humanity are we becoming where we have all these advancements and technology but dumb as cavemen? Shitying on the very demonstrable science which show 100 percent molcules are made in the furnace of stars during super nova.
We have demo strangle evidence of black holes.
We have demonstrable evidence the earth earth is round. So much so you could even read all the test results for around earth from birth till death millions upon millions separate verified peices evidence.
THIS I am arrogant of .
Just like my brain is not pyrimid shaped and I'll be cocky and arrogant no matter how many basement dwelling YouTube camcorder s say other wise.

Maybe you guys acvussi g me of being arrogant
I should start being arrogant, then you can see the difference and ask me to go back the way I am now .
Humble.
So humble I do what I do here
I get paid nothing.
I am nameless I am nobody
There are zero threads about me .


Remember your knocking on my door coming inside and accusing me of something
I'm not knocking on your door an accussing you of something

I was taught it is arrogance to pretend you know what is in a strangers mind.
That's why I'm not arrogant enough to tell you your motivations behind particular behavior .
The humble approach is to think
" Oh I'm not sure why someone said or did that"
Hey mmj2017
Why you say that think?
" Oh I was joking people asked me not be serious all time"
Ah I see know .
That's humble.
https://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round/
https://www.google.com/amp/crosstalk.cell.com/blog/seven-ways-to-prove-earth-is-round?hs_amp=true
https://bigthink.com/videos/top-10-flat-earth-theory-proof.amp.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pb...ce/7-diy-experiments-b-o-b-the-earth-is-round
http://mentalfloss.com/article/546834/science-behind-why-earth-not-flat
https://futurism.com/facts-obvious
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160126-how-we-know-earth-is-round

 

Last edited: Jul 10, 2019

@itisntreal, I think it is wonderful that you, using English as a 2nd (or3rd, 4th?) language, have written with far more clarity than most of MMJ's insulting rants.
I think you have provided superb clear thinking and have described the faults in this thread perfectly.
Terrific!

Your line... "after reading 30 pages i still dont get it" is the important core of the problem here.
Maybe you were optimistically hoping to actually find some well presented music theory here and you didn't find it.
I am a real fan of music theory and I can't find any coherent well-presented music theory either.

I can find useful references to other people's nice presentations, (thank you MMJ - but not secret, not hard to find)
But those references are wrapped up in scruffy garbage masquerading as unique insights and presented as "the messiah is here to save our musical lives". It's appalling and insulting.

And that is a real shame because the idea of presenting music theory is wonderful, and a thread like this really should be great.
But look at the evidence, many many people are insulted by it and pissed off with it.
MMJ thinks the viewers are here for his special music theory - I think they're probably here just to laugh at the spectacle.

I truly applaud AudioSex for tolerating this thread, but I wonder at what point it becomes just too embarrassing.
It already is embarrassing for anyone that does know and care about music theory.

===

Now let's end on a more constructive note.

Triad Pairs. This is the latest buzz word from MMJ. Regrettably, watching MMJ present his insights on Triad Pairs is like watching a teenager talk (badly) about how they invented denim as a new fashion material.

Triad Pairs is a genuinely interesting approach to thinking about chords. Is it new? - not really. Is it useful? - yes!
If you presented the idea to Mozart he would probably just say "that's really elementary old news"
If you look in the Jazz world, then the topic is enthusiastically discussed in hundreds of Jazz books

So if you're interested in Triad Pairs then how should you proceed?
1. Obviously Google and Youtube- always a good place to start
2. See the video links that MMJ has provided in this thread, they are good videos that you could easily have found yourself.

Now perhaps you want to see something written to support what you saw in the videos.
Do you try to read MMJ's scruffy notes? Why bother, when there are hundreds of genuinely well written alternatives.

If you are a masochist, or you just don't know the difference between gems and junk. then (try to) read MMJ's ramblings.
But if you want well written, well explained alternatives, then here are just a few possibilities from the hundreds that are available.

[1] https://mattwarnockguitar.com/triad-pairs
This one was written for guitarists, but obviously you already know that Triad Pairs are useful for all musicians.
Pianists or Saxophone players, etc, can all profitably explore this guitar-oriented discussion of Triad Pairs.

[2] I mentioned how Jazz books have been doing this (really, really, really well) for almost 100 years.
So, here's a link to just two examples.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/0f1kdvgjy9ju16b/Triad_Pairs.rar/file

Comparing MMJs scruffy regurgitated notes to these two text books is like comparing a broken 2nd hand skate board to a Porsche.

As I mentioned in an earlier post..
This is the 21st Century. As a self-motivated learner, with access to the Internet, you are spoilt for choice. And that means you CAN and SHOULD, demand very high quality. Why settle for anything less? It is YOUR education at stake - always.

 

Yes, it is true that now you read my comment about triad pairs you know the name of something and can Google it find out what's been written said and done with it. ( Didn't know that anyone needed you to explain that to them)
But I'm just curious , but what about all the things someone dies not know the name or concept of?
What do they type in Google?
Lol

I am so grateful that you are behaving as you are and saying the things you do .
So funny!
Thanks for pushing more people to me out of fear of being so musically ignorant and demonstrably incorrect .
Not only do them come to learn to advance themselves they get to see real world results of how the musically ignorant and illiterate behave!

Ad heesive
I'm so glad that out of everything you could be doing with your time you are here interacting on my thread .
Driving up traffic
Your not making your own thread because you don't know what to talk about .
Your a fan of music theory?

Okay why don't you learn about it
Like your claims of Bach's triad pairs :D °°

Please post a link to Bach's material on 7 note chords ( including the category of triad pairs )
I can't find my copy thanks ;d
It's nice to see a newbie user jump on my threads
Bring people in instead of creating your own thread with something to say.
It be excellent if you make a thread where you go step by step starting from chromatic scale describe each step of music theory in order
Since your such a fan
Or how about a thread about anything at all you have to say? We will monitor the views it gets .
So how well you do . I'll even come by troll you drive up your numbers.

 

Last edited: Jul 10, 2019