Hello. I'm hoping someone will have an idea. and possibly solution, to a problem that's developed recently with my set-up. I'm using Windows 11 with Ableton 12 and running several hardware synths through USB and midi.

About 2 months ago I had to dismantle my studio and when I put it back together I found that the midi synths (running through audio interface M-Track 8x4) disconnected every time I switched another USB device on or off. So, my midi synth would go 'grey' on it's (external instrument) midi track in Ableton and I'd have to use the drop down menu and choose it again. I updated all drivers and reinstalled Live but it made no difference. Not a big deal but irritating.

I contacted M-Track who told me they thought it was that the M-Tack developed a fault. So I replaced the M-Track with a focusrite and the problem stopped. Then, two days ago I added another old synth to the set-up using USB and that's now doing the same thing. If I switch any hardware device on or off, the synth disconnects. I've just changed it to midi rather than USB and it's stopped so I'm now thinking this may be to do with my PC as it's switched from midi to USB but I can't make any sense of why it's happening.

Any help gratefully received.

Thanks

Rob

 

Let's try to approach the problem by checking and adjusting the following:

USB Suspend
Almost every computer used for music performance is going to be using USB devices. Whether that’s music related devices like audio devices, USB/MIDI keyboards or typical PC devices like a keyboard or mouse you really don’t want these devices to be suspended while you’re playing.
Even if you’re not using USB devices, you still should make this change. In fact it’s probably even more important– if you’re not using USB it’s more likely to be suspended and giving the device driver the opportunity to shut down could cause an undesirable stall.
In “USB Settings” -> “USB select suspend setting”, change the setting to “Disabled”.

Don't let audio glitches ruin your performances! ---> www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

USB Hub Power
The USB Hub and USB Root Hub devices have a setting that determines if Windows will
power them off to save power.
The reasons for disabling this are essentially the same as for the “USB Suspend” setting in
Power Options.
read more Page 27 ---> www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

Check your USB connection
Use a suitable USB cable for your hardware
Make sure you use a short USB cable, either the one in the box with your interface, or a cable shorter than 2 metres or 6 feet. Using longer USB cables with your interface can cause dropouts, glitches, or prevent your interface from working. Make sure any replacement cable meets the spec in this article: Can I use any USB cable with my Focusrite USB Interface?

Ensure your interface has its own dedicated USB port
USB hubs are known to cause issues with audio devices. These issues can include noise, and connection problems. Therefore, avoid using them and connect your interface directly to your computer.

Avoid USB adaptors
USB adaptors are also known to cause issues with audio devices. Therefore, we recommend using a cable with connectors that can connect directly to your interface and your computer's USB ports. If your audio interface comes with an adaptor in the box, this has been tested to ensure it will not cause the same issues that other adaptors might.

Change the plan settings
You will now be on the Power Options page with your custom power plan selected. Customise the power plan with these steps:

1. Click Change plan settings next to your new custom power plan
2. Click Change advanced power settings.

First, In the Power Options window, disable USB selective suspend for your custom power plan:

1. Expand USB settings, then USB Selective suspend setting.
2. Next to Setting, select Disable.
3. If you have a laptop, instead of Setting, two other options will appear: On battery and Plugged in. Select Disable for both.

USB power management settings
This prevents your PC automatically turning off USB ports:

1. Right-click Start and open Device Manager.
2. Expand Universal Serial Bus Controllers.
3. Right-click the first device and select Properties.
4. Go to the Power management tab.
5. Untick Allow the computer to turn off the device to save power.
6. Apply steps 3 to 5 to each device within Universal Serial Bus Controllers — ignore any devices that do not have a Power Management tab.

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207355205-Optimising-your-PC-for-Audio-on-Windows-10

 

Adding synths (probably) drain more current from USB.
And USB computer port "cut" power.

Test running your MIDI-interface from a powered hub.
Or an USB 3 port (probably enough).

As side note ... it can simply be the cable itself (yes, it happens).

PS : if you don't want to use a powered hub in the long run, there are "simple" USB cables with additional +5V power supply.

 

Last edited: Jan 16, 2025 at 1:09 PM

I'm all in on your cable being the issue. Swap it out and see if it matters.

 

As far as I remember there where some issues when connecting too many USB devices,
some kind of overflow (because every USB device gets some special ID in some USB (driver) database when plugged in or switched on)
Its just a guess.

 

According to the USB standard, you can connect up to 127 devices.

 

Yes, but USB itself had or has some ID-Database:
Plug a stick in USB port 1 - it gets an unique ID , pull it out and plug it in port 2 - it gets another ID
.. so I understand it

 

Any number of usb devices like this can also be drawing power. That gets back to the Windows power settings you already posted about, or a possible problem with the powered usb hub, or usb cables.

If you are going to run many hardware devices over regular 5 pin Midi cables, you might want to get a separate usb-Midi interface such as Motu's Midi Express 128. They aren't exactly cheap, but they are great.

 

USB can annoying. People have already answered the question, for the most part, but i'll just echo it.. it tends to be power related or the cable. One thing I'll add though that I don't think was mentioned.. if your devices have a secondary way to get power (ex. an adapter, or a second USB power) rather than drawing power via the device it's connected to, I'd highly recommmend that. I used to have disconnects with my MIDI Keyboard all the time, until I bought the AC adapter for it, for example. Also don't underestimate the problem of longer USB cables (mentioned in AudioSex AI's post).

 

USB + Windows = sadness. I use midi through a single USB interface and life is good.

 

Might be worth trying:

Run devmgmt.msc (Device Manager), go to Universal Serial Bus Controllers, check every USB Root Hub's "Power" tab. Tells you which USB devices are connected to that particular hub and how much power they draw. I've got my USB devices plugged in such that they all have their own USB hub (except for my keyboard and mouse).

 

Thank you for your replies. Gone through USB power and other power settings but they were already set up as recommended, did that when I bought the computer but worth checking. Changed the cable. No different. Had a look at number of midi devices taking up ports as that rang a bell and used the Korg uninstall tool as there were over 50 recognised. Deleted loads but it's still happening. All devices apart from one run on their own power supply. It's really odd that it's swapped from midi connection to USB. Never had a problem like this in 15 years of using windows and USB.

Thanks again. I can use midi to run the synth, mainly I'm wondering if I've wasted £300 on focusrite when M-Track could be fine. However, I do think it's a better sound.

Cheers. Rob.

 

Which device (name and manufacturer) is causing the problems? What version of Windows do you have?

 

Maybe this is usefull:
https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

 

It's a Moog Sub37 and I'm using windows 11.

 

Thanks. I'll have a go, see what it comes up with.

 

In my opinion, Windows swallows the settings.

Maybe try running it over USB.
MIDI I/O: DIN In, Out, and MIDI over USB

36
MIDI MENU PARAMETERS
IN CHANNEL (MIDI MENU 1.1)
This determines the Sub 37’s MIDI Receive Channel.
The choices are 1 - 16 and ALL which puts the Sub 37 in Omni Mode.
The default MIDI In channel is 1.
^ try ALL first


IN PORTS (MIDI MENU 2.1)
This determines which MIDI ports receive MIDI data sent from other devices.
The choices are OFF, DIN, USB, or BOTH (default) ^check if OFF or USB only

Spoiler: I think you already have the latest firmware installed!

I think you already have the latest firmware installed!

As already mentioned with regard to the editor, another new feature of firmware 1.2.0 is that the sequencer can now output MIDI note data. Furthermore, connected notes of the same pitch are sent to the DAW as one continuous note instead of many individual overlapping notes. On top of that, the basic settings for the initialized preset have been changed and sequences can now also be saved from panel mode.
Last Firmware: https://recording.de/attachments/sub_37_update_instructions_v1-2-0-pdf.35210/

 

Last edited: Jan 16, 2025 at 5:16 PM

MIDI-OX 7.0 has been released:
Download: MIDI-OX 7.0.2
www.midiox.com

AMD usb chipset drivers
www.amd.com/en/support/download/drivers.html

Fixing Korg USB Midi driver issues with Windows 11 in 2023

How To Fix Install MIDI Drivers In Windows 11

Do you want to improve Windows 11's music experience? With the help of our most recent video tutorial, you can install MIDI drivers and unleash the full power of your musical instruments. We examine how to install MIDI drivers on Windows 11 and make it simple for you to connect and use MIDI devices, using inspiration from a variety of sources. Watch this space for professional advice, and grasp the significance of MIDI drivers for a seamless Windows 11 music experience. Get a complete answer by watching now, and improve your music arrangement.

 

Ableton - MIDI Channels

Standard MIDI supports 16 channels per port. You can change the MIDI channel within the hardware setup. This is useful if you want to use several devices connected in series and connected to one MIDI port (daisy chain).

Note: MIDI transfer rates are limited, so it is better to use a separate channel for each device.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209774265-Using-hardware-synthesizers-with-Live

 

USB Device Tree Viewer V4.4.4
www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html

The USB Device Tree Viewer, short UsbTreeView is based upon the Microsoft "USBView" sample application found in the Windows Driver Development Kits and now standalone at GitHub.

But it is source code only, there is no executable for end users provided. Meanwhile USBView comes as executables as part of the "Debugging Tools für Windows", see here: USBView. But still it is still more or less merely a demo application for the Windows USB API, after 20 years it still doesn't even save the window position...

UsbTreeView started with the USBView source code from the DDK for Server 2003. Here are the improvements I've done:

• Window position is saved, yea
• Informations from the Windows Device Management are collected and matched with the found USB devices; Therefore UsbTreeView can show the child devices, including drive letters and COM-ports
• Background color and font of the right pane can be set (the font shown in the screenshots is DOSLike 7)
• Keeps the tree item selection over refresh
• Shows open handles on failed safe removal
• Way more descriptors are decoded, as Audio 2.0
• Hexdump of the descriptors can be shown
• Safe removal, device restart and port restart
• Extended USB information available under Windows 8, 10 and 11 (taken from the latest USBView sample application)
• Extended information about host controllers
• Failed USB requests are re-tried in the background, e.g. if a USB mouse was moved while requesting its properties
• Toolbar with jump-lists for easily finding devices in complex trees
• Tree-view with handmade 16x16 icons, USBView used 32x32 icons scaled down to 15x15
• many minor improvements

With V3.0

• No more enumeration of all devices on arrival and removal of a USB device
• Search function (not full text, only things like device ID, drive letter, volume name etc)
• Some new Keyboard shortcuts (Alt+D to open the drives list, Alt+R the Others list, Alt+S to focus the search edit, Alt+Left/Right to cycle thru the search hits
• Options not to expand empty hubs or hub with only empty hubs attached
• Options to jump to arrived and removed devices
• Option to expand tree items to make selected arrived and removed devices visible
• Option to rename tree items (press F2 or single-click it when selected)
• Uses Windows visual theme with option to turn it off